Zoe Quinn: “Depression Quest Dead in the Water Without Grayson”

gameloading

I’ve mostly stayed away from the notorious “video game” developer Zoe Quinn. She’s a hot topic, and guaranteed traffic, but she’s also radioactive. Every time GamerGate criticizes her, the media has a tendency to portray it as harassment, or everyone ganging up on poor Zoe. I do believe that she’s suffered some harsh treatment on social media networks, and has had real life incidents as well. I accept all that. However, that doesn’t exempt her from criticism. That doesn’t mean she’s allowed to collude with her buddies to push a shit game onto the gaming public, and inexplicably ride that game to fortune and fame.

That’s been the crux of the GamerGate complaint all along. But we’ve never been able to pin the accusation down. Somehow, she keeps slipping through our fingers. Actually, it’s something that’s almost admirable, in a twisted sort of way. No matter how many lies she tells, no matter how many dirty deeds she does, she’s still portrayed as some kind of mix of Madonna, and Mother Teresa. It’s maddening, and wrong.

Zoe’s always refused to go into her personal life. Fair enough. But it’s public record that she and Nathan Grayson had a sexual relationship in April of this year. Grayson wrote a story about Zoe’s Game Jam on March 31st. This is how Stephen Totilo described the relationship between Zoe and Grayson during the reporting of that story:

“At the time, Nathan and Zoe were professional acquaintances. He quoted blog posts written by Zoe and others involved in the show. Shortly after that, in early April, Nathan and Zoe began a romantic relationship.”

Professional acquaintances don’t usually get thanked in the credits of someone’s game though, like Nathan was in Depression Quest. Here’s a screenshot of the HTML code (dqfinal.html) from the Depression Quest site:

DEPRESSIONQUEST3

This game would have been dead in the water months ago without you all. – Zoe Quinn 

In case you think that’s late evidence, here’s a screenshot of the root directory, showing it hasn’t been changed since February 2013. And this is an archive link proving all this as well.

DEPRESSIONQUEST2

 

So, we have incontrovertible proof that Nathan Grayson was an intimate of Zoe Quinn, at least all the way back in early 2013. And, it only stands to reason, that he actually knew her a lot longer than that. Afterall, you don’t thank someone you just met in the credits of your game. Oh, and just in case you didn’t think the HTML evidence was enough, here’s Grayson listed on MobyGames on their Depression Quest page as well.

Also, don’t forget about his RockPaperShotgun article, which called Depression Quest  a “powerful Twine darling,” and spotlighted it on a list with 49 other games on it. The image of the article is from Depression Quest, and the first game he talks about is Depression Quest. This is the corruption that we’ve been saying was there all along. The root cause of GamerGate has been vindicated, as Grayson has shown to have VERY DEEP ties to Quinn and DQ, and also used his clout at RPS to push this game onto the public. If that’s not corruption, then I don’t know what is.

I think that Stephen Totilo, and the management there at Gawker Media have some thinking to do. Because I’m not sure how they plan on spinning this one away. Their claims up until now have proven to be lies. They’ve smeared a whole lot of good people that I care about, and that’s GamerGate. It’s one of the worst displays of contemptible malfeasance I’ve ever seen in my life. But at least they aren’t alone. The rest of the media has a lot of apologies to make as well.

************************************************************************

Oh, and special bonus: You know who else was instrumental in the making of Depression Quest, and also credited? Yep, our old friend Ian Miles Cheong.

 

UPDATE: While trying to slam me on Twitter, Zoe Quinn slipped up and admitted that Grayson was also a beat tester for Depression Quest (more involved than we previously knew).

 

UPDATE 2: These guys keep killing themselves. Now Grayson tries to say he wasn’t a beta tester…and didn’t work on the game…despite admitting working on the game in that very same tweet. More brilliance on display.

 

TheRalph

Founder, Owner, & Editor-in-Chief of TheRalphRetort.com. Political fiend, gamer, & anti-bullshit.

  • dodoking

    OH FUCK THE NAZI IS IN THERE AS WELL.

    I HAVE NO IDEA WHO MOST OF THOSE NAME ARE WE NEED TO GO THROUGH EACH OF THEM.

    • fjodor

      As a bystander just following this on both sides I would like to advice you guys to refrain from the use of slurs, ad hominems or callnames in order to keep it civil at least from your end since going all out caps and all like this only damage the public view of not only the poster but you as a group… Just pointing this out as an observation from the outside, nothing against or for your cause.

      • Jason

        Fair enough, but Ian Cheong is a Nazi sympather

        • fjodor

          Someone linked me to some chatlogs that showed just that, assuming those indeed are unaltered of course, so I understand the reasoning for posting as it was but it should have been worded like your response rather than just shouting since people from the outside looking in like myself often do not sit on facts and info like that and then posts flinging ad hominems will only backlash. – Still going through myriads of tweets and articles after days of reading trying to get some wholesome understanding of this whole thing.

  • Burn Ender

    and boom goes the dynamite.

  • dodoking

    ALSO WHY THE FUCK DOES SUCH A CRAPPY GAME THAT COULD BE MADE IN A DAY NEED THAT MANY PEOPLE TO MAKE

    • Internet_Zen_Master

      Not make, but FUND.

      Which makes the whole RPS Greenlight article even MORE DAMNING from the CoI angle.

      • Zeriel

        Yeah, that’s a fair point. The “thanks” section is probably just her patreon list.

        • Zzzzzzzz

          It really isn’t (or shouldn’t be) as Patreon did not exist when those credits were written and released.

    • llewdrac

      It takes that many people to promote and sell that turd, not make it.

  • Andrew ‘Wolfie’ Woolford

    Welp, that blows that line by Kotaku out of the fucking water.

    • In the words of TotalBiscuit, “Kotaku investigated Kotaku and cleared Kotaku”.

      Nobody should’ve taken their statement at face value.

      • Andrew ‘Wolfie’ Woolford

        I didn’t personally, but we also didn’t have evidence to properly contradict it at the time.

      • Mark Samenfink

        LOL Good ol’ Biscuit

      • NoDiscusssionJustInfo

        And Wikipedia sourced a “proof” about Kotaku’s innocence with an article from Kotaku.

        • Zoe Opheim

          As always, Wikipedia remains the clandestine example of ”unbiased” and ”uncensored” information on the internet. Y’all better recognize!

          • Valchrist

            “Wikistorming: Colleges offer credit to inject feminism into Wikipedia”
            That’s an actual Fox news story. I have seen reality absolutely co-opted, especially articles pertaining to male sexuality: they usually cite feminist texts and authors.

          • Zoe Opheim

            I remember watching a video that MundaneMatt made for that. It is literally astounding how much they can get away with distorting facts with their own agenda and present them to the public in such a way, that anyone who just so happens to come upon it, they just see that as the way it is ( as in, how the feminist in question views it ). For them, no one can agree or disagree or stay neutral on a topic and have an actual discussion on the matter; you’re either on their side, or on the patriarchy’s.

            Now let me just say that I know some people who identify themselves as feminists are not like that. Feminists like Christina Hoff Summers and Ayan Hurssi Ali ( not sure if I’ve spelt that right ) are some of the people that I have genuine respect and admiration for; people who put facts first and their world views second, because they know that people deserve the truth more. But those types of feminists are just few and far between these days. Right now, we have all these tumblerettes complaining about “rape culture” and “objectification” being prevalent in free, democratic societies that have the prevalent view of ” sex without consent is wrong because it fucks up other people, so don’t do it”, and also gives its female citizens as much rights as its male citizens ( and in some cases, more rights ).

            I’m sorry to go off on a tangent and make this such a long, fucking comment, but I just had to let this out.

    • C G Saturation

      Not to mention Cheong and Grayson completely failing to mention this up until now.

    • Yeah, so it turns out that (A) Grayson was thanked because he was one of 50-odd people who beta-tested the game, and (B) you conspiracy theorist dopes didn’t need to dig into the html, because his name already appears RIGHT IN THE FUCKING CREDITS.

      Serious question: did someone forget to change your diapers or something? Is that what you’re all so pissed about?

      • Unavillafied

        They dug into the HTML in order to see how long ago his name was added to the list. Translation: They were friends well before the articles were written and could be evidence of Grayson’s conflict of interest.

      • Silence Dogood

        You appear to be butthurt because we now actually have incontrovertible evidence of a conflict of interest when one was adamantly denied as not to have existing. That greasy, lisping ginger on the Reid Report made special mention of how the Nathan Grayson’s connection had been “debunked” and he blinked and made a little face when he said it too lol That’s called a “tell”.

        • KLLRFRST

          LOL. That dude looked like the offspring of Haley Joel Osment and a cyclops.

          • Silence Dogood

            He positively oozed with a mix of self-loathing and victim complex. He wants to be a “rescuer” because it will vindicate his own “suffering”.

      • Andrew ‘Wolfie’ Woolford

        No-one cared enough about the game to bother.

      • Oto

        Please don’t call it a game, it’s an insult to real game developers.

        • David Reynolds

          To be honest, it’s well written, but should have been a choose-your-own-adventure style of book to be published. :/

          • Oto

            Precisely, it’s anything but a videogame.

          • MethylX5

            It’s anything but well-written, I don’t now how a game that bad had 50 beta testers! It just goes to show how even piece of shit can be called a greatness, or even just a game, as long as a woman makes it. I’ve got to be honest if a man made a game this terrible. It wouldn’t get passed the alpha stage.

            I can’t believe a game that awful, that atrocious got passed 50 people without being properly spell checked, I mean come on, it was one of the most important part of the game, for the audience. 50 beta testers for a HTML game that in all honesty wouldn’t be able to pass judgment on Newgrounds.

            Oh wait, it’s not about the people who are going to play it i.e: the gamers, they’re all dead. Oops turned this post into a rant.

          • TeLin特林

            I actually deal with depression. Fuck that “game.”

            But…I guess it can still exist…whatever. lol

      • Tyler Marcoz

        I don’t think you knpw what a comspiracy theory is.

        Regardless, having beta tested it yet then gave it coverage without disclosing is itself a conflict.

        • Roland Bjorkman

          No kidding.

          What’s he doing beta testing an indie dev’s game if he’s just an acquaintance who works in media?

          The fact that he worked on it actually makes this WORSE, not BETTER.

      • Roland Bjorkman

        Lol. So he’s helping her beta test the game – he actually helped a little in the development.

        That’s actually worse than if they were just friendly and he wrote these articles singling her out. And that’s not something reporters typically do, is it? You think that excuse proves that he wasn’t actually biased?

        God, you people are delusional.

      • Guest

        Oh? Last couple weeks he was asked he never beta tested it.

      • Marcus Dubious

        “Serious question: did someone forget to change your diapers or something? Is that what you’re all so pissed about?”
        Grow the fuck up you pathetic little troll.

      • ArsenicSundae

        Are you as dense as you sound or is it an act to throw us off?

        If he was that important to the completion of the game, then he obviously wasn’t a nobody in her life in the time leading up to it’s release. This is contrary to the spin we’ve been handed by your media lapdogs who downplayed the relationship during that period. By the way, out those 50 people, how many is she known to have fucked? Oh, just that one? Astounding.

        Nah, I’ve decided. You are as dense as you sound. Par for the course when dealing with you anti-GG reprobates.

      • TeLin特林

        You don’t have to defend all women. Some women can be bad. Just as much as some men can be bad.

        That’s equality.

        • I have no desire to “defend all women” I have a desire to defend people who didn’t do anything wrong.

          The AAA games publishers have very openly, publicly engaged in bribery for games coverage but here you people NEVER said anything about that but instead you’re digging through the code of a game made by some small, obscure developer for which much of the raised funds went to charity and you think you’ve found something on her because a journalist at some point checked that some html link was working for her. That’s not “equality,” that’s you people being out of your minds you’re so obsessed with this woman.

          • TeLin特林

            Yes. Gamers have said things. You weren’t around, because you flocked to defend a woman who is just as wrong as past AAA devs/pubs.

            Heard of Gertsman(sp)gate? Doritogate? EA had an IGN writer as a voice actor. People bitched too.

            This has been coming to a head for years. If you haven’t noticed…people are pissed at ALL mainstream sites.

            But No, Of course you haven’t heard of any of those controversies. You aren’t interested in actually informing yourself.

          • TeLin特林

            ” but instead you’re digging through the code”

            I’m sorry, you must have me confused with the writer; I have not looked at any code. His and her tweets have shown me plenty. 😉

    • Gregg Braddoch

      I’ve been saying this exact same thing forever. People keep saying “He never wrote a review” and I’ll reply “He featured her prominently game in two articles” to which people always reply “They had sex after those articles” and I’m just like “Well that makes it so much better – its not like they couldn’t have known each other, and couldn’t be fond of each other before then”

      • d0x360

        These people know the dates they had sex? Wow..that’s weird. At this point the 2 could have started having sex 10 years ago and they would never admit it because they know damn well any further evidence is damning.

      • bazzar

        They’ve admitted to having sex after the articles, that doesn’t preclude the possibility that they had sex before the articles.

  • Topgeartony

    I’ve got to be honest. I’ve worked on more complex flash games than DQ.

    • KR_Badonkadonk

      I’d like to see the complete source code for DQ, I’m willing to bet that Inform7 projects I made in college are more complex.

      • Zeriel

        Twine doesn’t really have source code. There is limited scripting, but that’s it. Any completed Inform project will be more complex than Twine games.

    • Elilla Shadowheart

      Oh come on now, it’s like Twine is a complex programming language or something. I almost typed that without a huge grin on my face…almost.

    • C G Saturation

      I wrote similar text adventures in Basic when I was around 5-6 years old.
      Shame everyone thought computers were “evil” back then.

  • Internet_Zen_Master

    Uhm… Well then. That’s… damning.

  • totlmstr

    I wouldn’t call it “incontrovertible proof” just yet. Just a few more coincidences, but this does have a *lot* of questions. Even if we did go with the alibi that Nathan mentioned, there is still more questions than answers.

    I do find it completely hilarious that Ian Cheong is in there, though.

    • Shogun1x

      No, I’d say its a smoking gun. He was put in the game’s credits in feb. 2013. She knew him at least that far back. Every article he wrote between then and now that mentions her should’ve had disclosure. Bad form, Grayson.

    • Silence Dogood

      It’s not a coincidence, it’s literally there and the dates are confirmed. They claimed to have had no conflict of interest and to have been “objective” “above board” and “unbiased”, when now we can see they clearly were NOT.

      Also, Cheong needs his own White Powah meme. Azn neo-nazi confuses me terribly. And no, one does not simply stop supporting fascism and being a nazi; they just refocus their hate.

    • Roland Bjorkman

      What’s his “alibi”? If it’s the one someone else mentioned in the comments trying to defend him, that he just “beta tested”, then he’s just stupid.

      Working on the game is an even more obvious conflict of interest. When it comes to friendships between reporters and devs, there’s a little bit of a grey area. I mean, it’s not surprising that they’d socialize a bit. It’s when you get into close friendships, financially supporting devs, sleeping with them, that you really see a problem.

      Helping develop a game, being thanked in the credits, that’s pretty black and white.

      And what’s she doing having him beta test if they don’t know each other very well? A developer went to a journalist she didn’t know well and asked him to help? That doesn’t make much sense. Whatever he did, it was enough to be thanked in the HTML code. Maybe if he were doing a story on indie development, but then it wouldn’t be a secret and he wouldn’t be covering the game when it’s released.

  • JMessun

    When discussing it, keep in mind that some people liked DQ (or so they say). It may not be a game per se, and even most if not all Visual Novels would give it a hard time, but once it stops pretending to be a game, it’s not that horrible. I know most of you/us have come to dislike its author for one reason or several, but I’ve just seen excessive shitting on Depression Quest when at times it doesn’t deserve it.

    Now, I’ve had my way with diagnosed depression, and have played an hour of DQ. I didn’t like it (though I didn’t finish it as I admit above), I didn’t feel like it connected with me and my experiences of depression, but some people said it did so with them, and I am not going to doubt their opinions for so much as convenient narrative on my side. I’ll leave that to the journalists I’m up in arms against.

    As for the article, I never doubted something like this would come up eventually. It seemed all too suspicious that the two had sex some several days after an article promoting her game. Relationships usually don’t just work like that – usually. That’s why it’s not evidence, it’s suspicion. And this suspicion just got yet-another-bit confirmed.

    • Erthwjim

      Yeah that’s what I don’t understand, relationships don’t just appear out of thin air too often, there is usually a build-up to them. Meaning friends or some sort of acquaintances beforehand.

    • calbeck357

      I’ve been saying for some time now, it’s a decently-written interactive autobiography. That said, its competition for Greenlight was far superior, and it success in making it to Steam was clearly a matter of abusing social media like we’ve seen with other undeserving games which did the same.

      • C G Saturation

        When I was in game dev college, lecturers and students often asked each other to vote-bomb their submissions to contests. They won via this method, and received local, nationwide or worldwide fame as a result.

        My friends and I feel that this kind of tactic is dirty as hell. I’d want people to vote for me based on my ability, not our friendship. Contests shouldn’t be about who has the most friends.

  • KR_Badonkadonk

    Let’s not forget that Nathan Grayson was so aggressive when speaking to a Blizzard developer that he basically had to be kicked out of an interview. Corrupt or not, I don’t want someone like that representing me or speaking for me to the industry. Period.

  • GuitarAnthony

    Wednesday is going to be an INTERESTING day, kids.

  • GDI

    Wasn’t Depression Quest freeware though? I’m trying to figure out the “fortune” part of the equation.

    • KR_Badonkadonk

      Her Patreon, that game jam that’s never happening where all the donations go to her personal PayPal…

    • Nick

      It wasn’t always free. IIRC it was made free in early August.

      • Yeah, the infamous “cash-in on Williams’ death” moment. And the supposed ‘anyone still buying this we’ll give this to iFred’ nonsense.

    • totlmstr

      May 2013 was when Patreon was established (according to the Wikipedia page). She may be listing close acquaintances, but the matter of Patreon is still an important question that needs to be answered.

    • chrimony .

      I don’t see “fortune” anywhere in the article. But she has a Patreon account, currently sitting at $3,399 a month, so any press is good press for her.

      • MsHennessy21

        Holy crap! People have starting pulling out, it was much higher last week.

        • C G Saturation

          Wouldn’t be surprised if they were just channelling it through less obvious means.

          • MsHennessy21

            It was 6 something the last I looked. So, that’s roughly half. But maybe they are just sending it directly to her paypal.

    • C G Saturation

      People believing it’s freeware is part of the misinformation.
      It was made in 2013, and became free in mid-2014.
      Seen so many “news” sites get this simple fact wrong.

      That’s why I say Quinn isn’t stupid. I think she created this misunderstanding on purpose, just like how she leaked her own nudes to make people think her ex did it.

    • Jess

      It was for a fee initially, then it became “pay what you want”. And when you rack up enough victim points, people pay a lot. Even to her Patreon for absolutely nothing.

      Plus her name which I was otherwise oblivious to until she started slating gamers has become fairly [in]famous now.

  • So this will be the new gamergate conspiracy theory against Zoe Quinn. Could you all at least do us a favor and tell your “it’s not really about Zoe Quinn!!” friends to shut up already? At least BE HONEST with the rest of us that you’re obsessed with this woman and poring through every tiny irrelevant detail of her life to find some imagined flaw.

    • Andrew ‘Wolfie’ Woolford

      Um no, it’s proof Nathan Grayson and Kotaku misrepresented the truth actually. Quinn is merely a background actor in it.

      • Grayson is mentioned in a list about 50-100 people long. You people are childish for thinking it represents anything at all.

        • chrimony .

          It represents a conflict of interest between a games “journalist” and a game “developer”.

        • totlmstr

          He was reporting on a friend who thanked him in the game for helping. That’s not nepotism?

          • Guest

            He’s literally “reported” on Depression Quest twice, and both times were including it in a list of 50 other games that were greenlit.

            So no.

          • Zeriel

            What about Ian Miles Cheong, who tweeted asking people to play it? What about Danny Dyer, a Gamespot journo listed in the thanks section who did a TWO HOUR long overview of it? You really have to be _trying_ not to see massive ethical failures here.

          • C G Saturation

            Tweeting about it is fine. It’s different if he wrote an “objective” article praising it without saying he helped make it.

            Don’t know about the Danny Dyer situation because I’m not sure of the full context.

          • AT-LOW

            As a #gamergate supporter, I actually do agree with this.
            This evidence is bulletproof, but not damning. All it really shows is that Grayson and Zoe knew each other a year before her game was released.

            If anyone thinks that this represents a bigger point, please do mention.

          • C G Saturation

            As a game dev, if someone helped me make a game, I wouldn’t ask them to write a gaming news review for me without disclosing our personal relationship. That’s all there is to it.

          • AT-LOW

            A very, very late respone but grayson only ever gave her game jam coverage in an article at best. He never reviewed her game.

          • C G Saturation

            He should still have just admitted that he’s friends with her. Why is that so difficult to do? Grayson being lazy for a few seconds has wasted hours of thousands of people’s time.

            If there was a law against causing people to waste time, he’d be imprisoned for life.

          • C G Saturation

            It’s not nepotism because the list is long, apparently.

        • MsHennessy21

          I’m actually pretty sure most of us would gladly expunge Zoe Quinn from both our thoughts and memory. The issue is about the journalist being shady, more so than her wanting to do…whatever the hell Zoe Quinn does. Wait, what does Zoe Quinn do again?

          • “Wait, what does Zoe Quinn do again?”

            Even when you’re trying to convince us you don’t have any interest in this woman whatsoever, you can’t help yourself but throw in a cheap snide comment against her, can you?

            This is part of the reason why GG will keep having trouble with media outside of rightwing tabloids. It would be dishonest for the press to not acknowledge that you are all a bunch of hypocrites with an obvious axe to grind with people that you view as not belonging to traditional gamer culture, particularly women with feminist politics.

          • dodoking

            oh okay do you want me to say “I hate her” good done is it over. the fact you jumped over grayson and tortilla lying says a lot about you

          • MsHennessy21

            No seriously, what the heck does she do? I don’t care about Zoe Quinn. What she does is completely her business, not mine, as I have said in my blog videos. She is nothing to me, not because I hate her or anything nearly that dramatic. Zoe Quinn has all the right to make her own choices. She didn’t have to tell anyone about her personal life. HOWEVER, what the MEN in this situation did after having a personal (any sort of personal, for better or worse, sexual or not) relationship with her, is the issue here, because they had job credibility on the line. This is just a result of that credibility being challenged, as it should be. Reading most of these comments, people either think her product is crappy, or they are more upset about the biased journalism, more so than caring one way or another about her.

          • Roland Bjorkman

            And you think you know something about traditional gaming culture because of some editorials written by some feminist, it seems.

            Women have been involved as long as i can remember. Feminist women can make all the games and write anything they like. people are just getting tired of being accused of hating women if they get criticised. and having one political agenda constantly being pushed so much, and its always the same from one to the next, without exception. they wont even allow disagreement in comments anymore when it comes to these political topics.

            The way theyve held gamergate and “toxic gaming culture” responsible for every bad thing a troll has done to a feminist online just proves our point.

            This is just one of many problems people have, btw.

        • Sand Ripper

          This game won awards at festivals where friends of Zoe Quinn were judges. Does that represent anything?

          Also, this proves that Grayson lied when he said he wasn’t involved with Quinn prior to 2014.

          • C G Saturation

            Not to Savannah, because festivals are long.

        • C G Saturation

          What kind of argument is that? “The list is long, so it means nothing”.
          Are you trying to prove my theory that people are ridiculously illiterate?

          Or just trying to pull a strawman? Because that’s a pretty stupid strawman.

    • Trance

      Nobody gives a singular fuck about ZQ, we’re discussing the lies that Totilo said to cover up the shit that Grayson pulled off.

      • Guest

        the shit that Grayson pulled off.. which is?

        • Trance

          Grayson released several articles talking about ZQ and her product that appeared on Rock Paper Shotgun and Kotaku, plus but less relevant, when GamerGate started to become a thing and people were questioning the ethical stances of Grayson, he went on full retard mode and started insulting everyone that tryed to question him.

          On a funny note, he publicly admitted that he was part of the GameJournoPros, saying that was no “no big deal”.

          Ralph made concrete all the things we already knew in August, now we only need to know why Totilo quickly dismissed the issue when he came out and said what he said to cover up Grayson.

          • AT-LOW

            Could you please link me to the articles Grayson wrote? I’m personally only aware of a couple where he mentions her game jam and depression quest in passing. archive.today links would be preferable, thanks.

          • C G Saturation

            Anti-GG keeps claiming that he didn’t write any at all. They probably don’t even know who Grayson is, or what video games are.

    • Crazy_O

      Advertisers are withdrawing from Gawker (company owning Kotaku) which has been our focus for the last week. Or- One Brazilian clickbait writer posting threats.

      You chose which narrative you want to follow. Have fun while at it, we are busy with Gawker.

      • C G Saturation

        I think this is what it really boils down to:
        If a small group of white male nerds colluding to hate and destroy women is a believable problem, then why not the media colluding to smear anyone who exposes their corruption?

        What’s less likely to be true, a corrupt media driven by greed for money, or a small, misogynist movement driven by an irrational hate of half the population?

    • Thomas Fährmann

      hi idiot!
      oh and btw… i´m sure i have seen you post somewhere else… you got a tattoo ?

  • Greg Arellano

    There were people commenting about this on twitter saying things like “THE SMOKING GUN!” and I really thought they were joking or just being cute, but this really did it. This is fantastic reporting and I applaud the author for blowing the lid off of this

    • C G Saturation

      I feel ashamed I never thought of checking that kind of thing myself.

      Then again, I’ve been staying the hell away from “Depression Quest”.

  • Shoeless

    Holy shit. Can’t wait to hear how this is “nothing” from Grayson and Tostitos.

  • calbeck357

    Ohai, credits page showing close relationship before game is even completed. How are you? We are fine.

  • Jess

    Little Hitler had a hand in it too, what a shock!

    • I so wish someone would do a parody short of him ala Little Bush.

    • fjodor

      Hi, just trying to get an overview of the whole situation and have so far read thousands of tweets and articles from both sides of this. If I may give you a friendly advice I would, if I where you, not use callnames, slurs or refering to someone as “Hitler”. This because in the eyes of someone looking at you from the outside it will count negative for most of the time and one of your (The GG’s) biggest issues to date have been bad PR to the uninvolved public. So it would be in your best interest to just refrain from it and keep as civil language as you possibly can if you want to be taken seriously as a group. – Just posting this as an outside observer, Im not affiliated with either GG or antiGG just so that is clear –

      • Jess

        Thanks for the sentiment.

        • fjodor

          Thanks for the quotes, AT-LOW under here showed me chatlogs as well so I do understand that it is compelling to describe him as a Nazi, assuming that those are unaltered and not taken out of any relevant context of course. As I stated below, outsiders like myself do not always know the background and it can only backlash at you so for that reason, no matter how correct you might be, it is better to not go into the ad hominem-trap and instead just go with the facts at hand and let the readers make up the ad hominems in their mind themselves. – So again, thanks for bringing more information on the table that I was not aware about.

          • Jess

            I totally get what you’re saying but please bear in mind I’ve spent the last 2 months being told I’m a “white, cishet misogynerd” along with all of my friends because we dared to speak up about Kotaku & pals being out of order.

            I’ve had to prove my identity as a black woman and a gamer just to be taken vaguely seriously as though my ethnicity and gender should hold any bearing on how valid my opinions are. (And yes, they also imply that gaming is somehow a private, men only club when I’ve been in it since I was fucking 6.)

            So when I’m barraged by people telling me that the gaming community is exclusive and discriminatory and then in the same breath they say “Lol, all white men are assholes” please try and empathise and understand why I need to vent ocassionally lest I punch somebody in the throat.

          • C G Saturation

            Isn’t it ironic how feminists whine that women have to prove themselves to be heard, whilst ignoring any woman who doesn’t prove they’re female?

            Well. I guess it’s more hypocritical than ironic.

          • Jess

            Yeah. You jump through a series of irrelevant hoops just to arrive at “hurrhurr internalised misogyny” or “you’re just bullying me to hang out with the boys111” or my personal favourite “you’re no better than a house nigger during slavery”.

          • KLLRFRST

            OH SHIT. I would Falcon Punch anyone who said that last line to my face, and i’m not even black. (I am 1/2 Mexican and 1/2 Native American though)

            I’m sorry that you had to experience that.

          • Jess

            Meh. Some of us are used to trolling being a standard part of the internet without having to cash in on it for a lifetime.

          • Zoe Opheim

            Fucking horrible that someone said that to you

          • Jess

            SJWs gonna SJW. *Shrug*

          • Fatherless

            The problem with the world of uber political correctness is that when they say “always believe a woman/minority when they say they are a victim” the way it plays out in real life is “ONLY believe a woman/minority when they say they are a victim.”

          • Jess

            Those characteristics have no bearing on a person’s character. The fact that people still believe they do in 2014 makes my blood boil.

          • fjodor

            For what it’s worth I do empathise and I completely understand why given your situation. The stuff I’ve seen been thrown around on twitter against people like yourself is pretty appalling and why this behaviour have not been addressed by anyone in the media or even amongst themselves, as far as I can tell, is in my opinion very bad and unfair. Harassment is not OK and a lot of people angry at GG for allegded harassment should really start acting like they preach. I can only wish you good luck and hope for your voice to be heard as well since I think that your experience in all this is important to know about.

          • C G Saturation

            Thanks for being open to information and polite in response.

          • fjodor

            np, from what I’ve seen so far the picture painted of the GG’s in the media and by those against it is really not representative at all… And that is much why I felt compelled to respond to a couple of the posts here. The response was actually a little bit surprising since I didn’t expect both information and the direct honest reasoning provided so quickly as well.

      • AT-LOW

        Ian Miles Cheong has made nazi sympathising comments before
        https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bx1_3u6CMAAwOjh.jpg:large

        • fjodor

          Thanks for linking this snap with quotes from Cheong, if those are non-altered actual quotes from him then I understand more about the reasoning behind the comment. Although I would still refrain from using descriptions like “The Nazi” or “little Hitler” because outsiders like myself do not always know the background and it can only backlash at you. That being said it is a positive thing that people with his views are put in the spotlight for his actions. – It strikes me that even thought I’ve been spending the last week trying to dig up as much information about this I’ve still got A LOT more to take in so information from those involved helps a lot to form a view, just need to dig through what is relevant and what is not hehe.

      • Internet_Zen_Master

        The reason a lot of people refer to Cheong as ‘Little Hitler” is because of his history of being an ASIAN Neo-Nazi (still don’t know how that one works). He recently came out and said he all that stupid shit in the past, but then tried to blame it on video games (for no apparent reason).

        • fjodor

          Hi, yeah, I read some of the stuff he said presented here and it’s…. disturbing to say at least.

        • Tyler Marcoz

          Fascism and National Socialism is actually pretty big im the east. They like to play up the East Aryan stuff that Hitler brought up to justify allying with Japan.

    • C G Saturation

      His other hand was too busy to join in.

      • Jess

        Looooooooooooooooooool.

  • Nick_Soapdish

    I was looking at the rps article last night thinking it can’t just be coincedence. Thank you based Ralph for this glorious bounty. THAT FILE DATE. This is some damn fine investigative journalism.

  • Parrikle

    There is something like 70 people being thanked – it certainly proves that they knew each other, but it doesn’t prove anything more. It doesn’t even get close to being a smoking gun without a whole lot more.

    Seriously, targeting Quinn and Grayson just isn’t worth it. This doesn’t make anyone look good.

    • chrimony .

      At the very least, it shows a conflict of interest already pre-existed before Grayson wrote his article for RPS and Kotaku. This relationship is ground zero of GamerGate, so I don’t see the logic in acting like they can’t be touched. That kind of thinking blew up GamerGate in the first place.

      • Parrikle

        It is stretching things to say that this is a conflict of interest – it might have been one, but a single acknowledgement amongst 70 other names isn’t going to be taken seriously.

        And that’s the problem – you can’t convince people that GG isn’t about attacking Quinn and harassment by continuing to focus on her, without something so conclusive that it justifies the continued attention. Something so big that it blows objections out of the water, yes. But a minor little hint of a possible conflict of interest? No.

        • C G Saturation

          I think it’s important to clarify this, because it’s one of the core things that created GamerGate.

          People are arguing that GamerGate was created from a debunked lie. Guess what? It wasn’t a lie. So now what? More excuses to delegitimize GamerGate?

          Doesn’t change the fact that they knew each other, didn’t disclose it, and then lied about it multiple times after. At the very least, it hurts their credibility more than it vindicates GamerGate.

          • Parrikle

            The debunked lie was that Quinn slept with Grayson in return for positive reviews. What this shows – at most – is that Quinn thanked Grayson along with 70 other people in the credits of her game. It doesn’t even show that they were friends – at most, it shows that they had some level of interaction in the past. They didn’t even deny knowing each other before they slept together, so it doesn’t even debunk that.

            Find a real smoking gun and there’s a valid point to be made. But this isn’t it. It does, however, say that GG is still focused on Quinn, which isn’t going to help.

          • henrykazuka

            Actually this article places the blame on Grayson. Zoe Quinn did nothing wrong, thanking someone on the credits of your own game is not a crime. Grayson, however, as a journalist should recuse himself or disclose the relevant informantion before writing about Zoe. Which he didn’t and he’s going against his editor in chief. Wasn’t Pinsof fired for something like that?

          • C G Saturation

            I don’t think we can say for sure whether she did anything wrong, as we can’t discern her true intentions, but Grayson obviously has the responsibility as a reporter to at least disclose such relationships. I doubt anyone would have cared if he’d just done that. It’s not hard.

            Grayson: “I really liked this game, even though I helped make it.”
            Reader: “Hmm. Sounds good anyway.”

            After everything blew up, he could have just said it was an honest mistake and didn’t think to do it. If he was truly innocent, he would have reacted that way. But no, instead we get denial and stupid ongoing crap, wasting everybody’s time.

          • C G Saturation

            I see this as being focused on Grayson.

            None of us can discern her exact motives for specifically sleeping with Grayson. All we know for sure now is that he did influence the creation of the game enough to get a special thanks.

            If he was just an acquaintance, I doubt she would have specially thanked him. As such, he should have just disclosed that. It’s not hard to do so.

            But I guess I can concede to you that people still aren’t going to see this as enough of a smoking gun to make a big difference.

    • C G Saturation

      As a game dev myself, if I made a game with a friend’s help, I’m not going to ask that person to write a review article to promote my game because their opinion would obviously be biased. It’s not fair to readers, and it’s not fair to other developers.

      Unless, of course, we disclosed our relationship.
      Which Quinn and Grayson obviously did not.

      • InBeforeTheLock

        Like the article says, it wasn’t actually reviewed but it was spotlighted out of a list of 50 games. Which isn’t much better, but it’s still an important distinction to make.

      • Parrikle

        The thing is, this doesn’t prove that they were friends – only that they knew each other, and that Grayson had provided enough help to warrant being thanked along with 70+ other people. How much help was that? We have no clue.

        • henrykazuka

          “Special thanks for their amazing support during a really difficult time. This game would have been dead in the water months ago without you all.”

          Apparently, the game would have been dead in the water without him.

          • Parrikle

            No, it would have been dead in the water without the support of over 70 people.

          • henrykazuka

            “Special thanks for their amazing support during a really difficult
            time. This game would have been dead in the water months ago without you
            all.”
            “Without you all”

  • Nick_Soapdish

    Remember Quinn did nothing wrong here. She doesn’t have to be held to a higher ethical standard. However Grayson, Kotaku, Totilo and every journalist who said it was crap? Give em hell.

    • Prepare the GAU ventilation squads!!!

    • famous_wolf

      Actually, it’s thanks to her that this whole thing has been blown wide open. I’m not even going to vilify her at this point, just thanking her that this oligarchic secret society has been exposed because they weren’t careful enough.

    • Robot Panda

      I think a lot of her behavior is completely unethical and she is a bad person, but in the end, she’s under no professional obligation to maintain any form of a moral standard.

    • In this particular case, yes. There is nothing wrong with a dev having an intimate relationship with a reporter. It is the fault of the reporter for bringing his personal relations into his work.

      That being said, I am not fond of some of the other things she did in the background of the scandal (related to TFYC, Wizardchan).

      • C G Saturation

        Unless of course, she begged/asked/manipulated him into promoting her. That’s always a possibility.

        • henrykazuka

          A possibilty witthout proof isn’t much. And that’s the kind of impossible proof that we will never find out, unless Nathan Grayson himself talks about it.

          • KLLRFRST

            Which doesn’t seem likely. Grayson has kept silent on this, letting Totilo be his mouthpiece, and posting nothing online aside from the occasional Kotaku article. Even when people call him out in the comments section, he doesn’t react at all. He may be an unethical asshat, but unlike ZQ, he’s smart enough to make himself less of a target by keeping quiet and laying low.

          • Hep C

            Yeah, but ZQ is a textbook narcissist. I doubt she could keep quiet even if she truly wanted to.

          • KLLRFRST

            Of course she is. She loves trying to troll GG, in order to get a reaction that she can call “harassment”. Luckily, she gets very few bites.

      • I don’t think any reporter should have any relationship with a subject, especially one he/she has previously written about.

        I know it’s impossible to completely avoid this (and unreasonable to require it), but if you’re a journalist, consider how it would hurt your own credibility.

        Look at it this way: if this happened in another industry, IMHO the outrage would be similar. For instance, can you imagine if:

        a) An executive at a car manufacturer had an affair with a Top Gear writer.
        b) A senator sleeps with a Capitol Hill journalist.

        Even if there is no article ever written by the hypothetical journalist involved, a controversy would ensue, which could ruin reputations.

        • KLLRFRST

          And if the journalist was quashing stories about the senator, that would really set off a shit show.

          • No quashing needs to happen to start a scandal.

            All it takes is for a relationship to be rumoured to exist. The mere perception would be enough to hurt the journalist and politician’s reputation.

          • KLLRFRST

            Well, I was just pointing out another parallel, since Quinn used her connections to get comments, forums, YT vids, and articles about her erased or censored.

          • Excellent point. 🙂

    • chrimony .

      I’d say a manipulative person that has been as unethical as Zoe deserves to be called out for her behavior. Did she seek out these relationships to further her career? It would seem so. One of the problems with GamerGate was the double standard when it came to reporting on alleged improprieties of male developers.

      • Dunno

        Perhaps, but #Gamergate is not the platform for that. We are about journalistic ethics, she is not a journalist. Only the gaming media really defended her until they got big sister media to help, everyone else pretty much knows her and her game are shit. Just focus on the journalists, they’re the source of all these problems

    • GuitarAnthony

      This is the point. No one gives a flying kudzu about ZQ. This is about the game journos who abused our trust and one thing journos hate the most in their careers is to be the story and have their investigative tools turned against them.

    • C G Saturation

      We’re talking about someone who allegedly murdered men by stabbing them in the face, or at the very least, boasted of having done so. That’s… not very nice.

    • LongLiveGamerGate

      Except that for every contest she won by spreading her legs, for every good review and great list, she took the spot of someone hardworking who didn’t suck cock for money.
      Not to mention her multiple attempts at sabotaging charities and contests. Sure, not everything has to do with journalism. That doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t judge it or say “oh she didn’t do nothing wrong”, she did wrong, and I’m not even mentioning all the lies and harassment. I’m sticking to more gaming theme. Because it does expand to industry, not just journalism.

      • who what huh

        “Except that for every contest she won by spreading her legs, for every good review and great list, she took the spot of someone hardworking who didn’t suck cock for money.”

        Which is still at precisely zero instances proven.

        • bazzar

          “I ain’t me”
          -R. Kelly

    • Silence Dogood

      She’s definitely a shitty human being, but at this point no one gives a crap about her. She’s not important. She’s a talent-less self-entitled drama queen professional victim and we’re all quite sick to death of her. Kotaku and the rest of them? Heads. on. pikes.

    • Silence Dogood

      Oooooh shit I almost forgot all her hate speech and her orchestrated attack against The Fine Young Capitalists and all the doxxing she had her fanboi’s do. And that “game jam” she was going to have, the one with no info and the money going into her personal paypal account. And her not actually doing anything work wise, but making like $36,000 a month thanks to Patreon donations.

      • koyima

        more like $3,600

        • Silence Dogood

          No, she makes more than most entry level position to literally do nothing. Her financial history is quite well covered by her detractors. But thanks for playing the “lie as hard as you can game.”

          • koyima

            I’m not lying you idiot, if you type such ridiculous crap you get screencapped and ridiculed for believing crap. Check her Patreon it’s in the 3.6K range, not 36K per month range. That would be absurd.

          • Silence Dogood

            Sargon of Akkad has a lovely video about the money she pulls in on Patreon and OTHER sources. She has a private paypal account to, you simpleton, and actively encourages donations to her “cause” which is apparently to do nothing except hang out with B-List ex-gaming celebs like Adam Sessler (Morgan Webb ftw) and date the sons of incredibly rich men who seem to enjoy self-flagellation and some kind of “ima save the world” complex. Not to mention that game jam of hers with no start date or focus or location…

          • koyima

            We know, that doesn’t mean he has hard figures. If you don’t have solid facts you just seem like a blind attacker.

          • Silence Dogood

            What I seem like and the issue are completely irrelevant. She makes a living stirring up shit, flinging it back, deleting tweets because the internet totally forgets things, and then calling anyone who calls her out as “harassing” her and literally makes money off of it. Professional. Victim.

          • koyima

            WTF does that have to do with the fact that you are throwing around stupid numbers, you simply look like a misinformed SJW fool or you maybe are a shill.

          • Silence Dogood

            No, I legitimately believe I heard it quoted as $36k. 🙁 Can you find me where it’s specifically quoted where the actual amount she makes to do nothing is?

          • koyima

            Just think of the screencaps: these guys think I pull in 36K, that’s absurd, here are my paypal receipts. Discredited.

          • Silence Dogood

            Except that ZQ and Anita Sarkeesian have NEVER publicly refuted ANY claim made against them regarding their claims. And when asked it’s referred to as “harassment”. Yet when gamers in support of gamergate are criticized about their activities, they quickly provide evidence. Which side sounds full of shit, exactly?

          • koyima

            WTF are you talking about, I didn’t even talk about harassment. Just saying wrong numbers on a page that is known to support GamerGate. It makes us look stupid. I’m not saying don’t say numbers, just don’t be stupid.

          • Silence Dogood

            Well, worse case if I’m wrong I’ll just recant and apologize due to being mistaken and/or misinformed. I have this thing called “humility” and a willingness to admit when I’m proved to be mistaken.

          • Silence Dogood

            Oh, and btw, if Anita Sarkeesian can raise (almost) $160k by manipulating the flow of criticism to her work and then letting the flood gate burst open all without ever actually CONFRONTING a critic, I’m pretty sure someone with ZQ’s connections in the industry (being a vocal, angry woman after that faux-sexist idiocy on that game jam show) as a “celebrity” as well as the extreme left-wing fringe she belongs to could raise a decent amount of “feel better” money. You see what I did there with that “feel better” part? (GameJournoPros)

          • Guest

            see image

          • Silence Dogood

            Can you link to a confirmed source that explains how that is accomplished?

          • Guest

            see image

          • Silence Dogood

            Those are image macros btw, not actual source articles explaining this VERY serious problem. And I was talking about Patreon, not Kickstarter. Also, if you’re referring to Anita, she confirmed with much celebration and a pair of $1,000 shoes (embezzlement much?) that they brought in that much money. Not to mention she has no actual job other than being a full time hate monger and professional shit stirrer (although she does get invited to give talks and receive awards and those talks aren’t free, so, more shilling).

          • koyima

            the shoes one was fake.

          • Silence Dogood

            Yeah, no, it wasn’t. She made a joke about it and how it wasn’t a big deal to spend the money because it was her “living expenses” to paraphrase the pseudo-intellectual word salad she likes to use.

    • Roland Bjorkman

      Good point. I’ve been focusing on the devs and journalists who were friends/sleeping with her. What they were doing – where is the feminist outrage about it? Usually men in positions of power doing things like that with women send them into righteous rage (something they love).

  • Kris

    Ralph you are the fucking boss!!!!

  • chrimony .

    Remember the standard that Stephen Totilo set on Aug. 19, “My standard has long been this: reporters who are in any way close to people they might report on should recuse themselves” https://twitter.com/stephentotilo/status/501817475097702402

    This is further evidence that they were “in any way close”, but we already have the pic of them on a bed together (with some other dudes) on Mar. 22, 2014 (hanging out at an after party or something at GDC), and that they were planning a trip to Vegas in late March with a couple of other people. They were already too close when Grayson wrote his Kotaku article, regardless of when they became romantically involved.

    • C G Saturation

      Theres a picture of them in bed together?

      And people are still calling Eron Gjoni a “lying sack of shit”.
      I wish he could sue all their asses for defamation.

      • KR_Badonkadonk

        Not in bed, sitting on a bed.

        • C G Saturation

          Okay. Sorry about that.

  • Guest

    I had to see it for myself. The proof is right here in this article, but I just had to go look at it. I don’t know why, but it was just too hilarious – too surreal. I can’t believe it’s been there this whole time.

    Tortilla and Grayson should have a great day today.

  • Thomas Fährmann

    Depression Quest is not a game and that stupid girl not a game dev. She might be a hobby writer but thats all. To write a fictional linear “interactive” book is not GAMING development!
    The only thing she can be credited for is her new image as the feministic rebel hero without a brain.
    ps.
    and why would anyone credit these “random” people in their exe file ? If this question is to difficult to answer then sorry… 😉

    • C G Saturation

      I wouldn’t call her stupid. I think “diabolical” is a much more fitting word.

      • Thomas Fährmann

        confirmed 😉

  • Mark Samenfink

    I view her as more of a typhoid mary than a mary magelene. Everything she touches, dies.

  • C G Saturation

    There’s no such thing as “criticism of women”, only “harassment” and “misogyny”.
    */sarcasm*

    Anyway, even if he wasn’t sleeping with her, according to this revelation, he was still on the special thanks before reviewing the game. There shouldn’t be such connections prior to or during review. Clear breach of ethics.

    Oh, and it also proves that Grayson, Kotaku, Cheong and the others are all blatant liars (as if it wasn’t obvious already). They knew about this the whole time and never mentioned it.

  • I’ve always found Grayson’s publicised timeline questionable. He said his romantic relationship with ZQ started sometime in early April 2014, which occurred after Grayson penned his March 31 article for Kotaku.

    If this were true, then this implies Grayson already had some form of admiration for her (at the very least) while he was writing the March 31 article (https://archive.today/QuqN3).

    So what exactly was in the article? Grayson essentially talked about a failed game jam that included ZQ. There, Grayson highlighted ZQ, brought her up frequently, talked about her in a positive light, and ended the article with a two-paragraph ZQ quote saying she has plans to run her own game jam.

    In other words, Grayson made ZQ come up smelling like a rose in that article; this made his fondness for her apparent. Furthermore, consider how frequently certain names were mentioned in the article:

    “zoe quinn” 3
    “quinn” 2
    “zoe” 6

    “jontron” 2
    “jon” 5
    “arnott” 4
    “wallick” 3
    “leshem” 5
    “serrato” 3
    “umetani” 3

    That being said, I think ZQ’s harassment is utterly disgusting. If we have an opportunity to avert any designs to harass her or any other female dev/gamer/online persona (as some have done recently – kudos!), then let’s do so promptly.

    IMHO, if there’s anyone that should be questioned here, it should be Grayson for not disclosing his closeness with ZQ, and Totilo for being lax in his leadership.

    What I do find odd about the beginnings of #GamerGate is that many of us focused more on ZQ and not Grayson. Sure, she also did some pretty shady stuff (i.e. TFYC, colluding with Reddit mods, etc.), but one of our main grievances is journalistic integrity–and ZQ isn’t a journalist–so I think we should’ve concentrated on Grayson.

    • C G Saturation

      ZQ’s harassment may be disgusting, but I can’t feel sorry for people who literally beg to be harassed by treating others like shit.

      I try to be a nice person and people harass me all the time. Where are my magical supporters and $3k a month compensation?

  • CommonSense

    Wow, its fucking nothing. And dude, you could have just screened the credits. Its already in the credits, like, not hidden at all. And ‘professional aquaintences’ get thank you mentions in credits, like, ALL THE TIME, especially in self produced games.

    • peori

      Is it really that hard to work out that it’s the timestamps that are important?

  • Dr. Hunky Jimpjorps

    Are you saying that everybody thanked in a game’s credits is sleeping with the people who made that game, because I don’t think this is as much of a smoking gun as you think it is

    Like, it was a book and not a vidcon, but in my acknowledgements, I listed four teachers, two officemates, a government bureau and my parents, and I definitely wasn’t sleeping with any of them

    • Dunno

      The “Thanked” proves they had a relationship beyond professional since before DQ came out. What kind of relationship was never alleged.

      • Parrikle

        You don’t feel that you can thank someone because they assisted you without there being a close relationship?

        • Dunno

          Exactly how did he assist her before Feb 2013? =p

        • Landale

          “for their amazing support during a really difficult time.”
          That’s not exactly a professional relationship.

  • andywade

    So fucking what? At the very worst, the games biz is a bit incestuous. Doesn’t warrant murder and rape threats does it? And it doesn’t mean you have to go around intimidating women either. Get a sense of proportion, fool.

    • Dunno

      No one is justifying murder, rape, or intimidation. And lmao at that attempt to downplay the nepotism.

      • andywade

        People have been intimidated over this issue though. And it’s fucking GAMES JOURNALISM, not Woodward and Bernstein. Get a sense of proportion, losers. If you don’t like a game, don’t play it. If you don’t like a magazine, don’t read it. Why resort to terrorism? What’s the point? It’s like shooting someone for farting in the lift.

        • henrykazuka

          See, that’s why we can’t have nice things.

          There was a shooting in America? So what! Do you know how many children are starving in Africa? Get a sense of proportion, losers!

          • andywade

            A game you didn’t like getting a good review is the same as a shooting to you? You’re fucked in the head mate.

        • Dunno

          “People have been intimidated” Not by me, likely not by Ralph. How’s that relevant to the facts being presented here?

          • andywade

            Lol, love the “likely”.

  • C G Saturation

    After looking through that list of credits, I must say it’s respectable that she actually went to the trouble of crediting so many people for helping her.

    Most of the assholes I meet always act as if they accomplished everything alone, and ignore everyone that helped them.

    • Dunno

      Yea, she did nothing wrong here actually. It just provides evidence Grayson might have later.

  • Thanatos2k

    Looks like Ramona Flowers has some explaining to do.

  • KLLRFRST

    This something, but it’s not 100% rock solid evidence.

    The real problem here is that she slept with Robin Arnott, one of the judges on the IndieCade panel, along with her PR agent, Maya Felix Kramer. The very same panel that awarded her a cash prize. That is some major bullshit.

    Can you imagine the uproar if it was discovered that the winner of Miss America had her agent and her lover on the judging panel? Heads would have fucking rolled.

    • henrykazuka

      The way you worded it sounds like they had a threesome or something.

      • KLLRFRST

        I have no idea. I’m just going by what ZQ herself admitted in Eron’s post. There was no mention of a threesome in it – though other outside sources hint that Maya was sleeping with/had slept with Robin and/or ZQ.

        *shudder*

        Now I need to go drink until I forget that image.

        • henrykazuka

          It’s the way you worded it, not the facts.

          “The real problem here is that she slept with RA,…,along with her PR agent, Maya Kramer.”

  • Silence Dogood

    Oh these people can just eat the biggest bags of dicks that has ever been sewn, stitched together and filled with dicks. I love how Truth is one of those glorious things that can be hidden and twisted, but never absolutely denied. Lies inevitably unravel.

  • Kelly Maxwell

    Good ole Ralph, keep em honest.

  • Phasmatis75

    Owe simple, they just ignore the evidence (again) and continue lying just like they always do. Since a lot of the top media companies collude, which I’m sure is not a total violation of countless fair competition laws, no one will break from the narrative they’ve set forth. No one is going to say, “Hey you know all the trash we’ve been talking, how we eminently defended Zoe Quinn? Yeah we were wrong.”

    They’ve dedicated themselves to their course and staked everything on it. They’ve sold their proverbial souls and are now screwed for doing so. There is just one get out of damnation free pass and that will go to the first major network that breaks rank (probably firing people) and discusses the real narrative and covers what is really going on. While of course diverting all blame away from themselves, naturally.

    We’ll see this probably after Gawker or Gamersutra falls.

  • desudesunyan

    I’m personally glad I read this article, as it makes it really clear what kind of movement this is.

    For one, there are multiple other people listed and it says “you all” which is pretty normal for people who wish to thank those who they felt helped in some way but weren’t directly involved in the making procedure. Are you claiming she was running some kind of extreme harem? In professional work, people usually do cite who they felt was helpful for multiple reasons. It’s pretty common in books. Grayson’s tweet seemed to imply “involved” as in “sexually involved”, which your article completely sidesteps.

    This article presents no evidence that they were in any kind of relationship (IE- romantic relationship for people who are dense) prior to early April.

    Also, how is she riding a game to fortune and fame when the game is free? You can “pay what you want” or simply play the game for free and she has donated some of the proceeds to charity. Normally when people want to be rich off of something, they usually put more effort into it and don’t make the equivalent of a tumblr interactive game. Or, you know, do something much more productive than Indie gaming which usually leaves people pretty poor until their game gets bought out by a bigger company.

    As for why she is getting so much attention, could it be because a large group of anonymous people are constantly giving her attention even though their movement is about “journalism ethics”? Furthermore, Zoe is not a journalist. If your focus is on JOURNALISM ethics and not INDIE GAME DEVELOPER ethics, then wouldn’t your primary research and articles be about the journalists involved?

    Because on my end, looking at all the gamer gate related media, especially pro gamer gate stuff, it really doesn’t look like it. And this ranges from the Gamer Gate boards speaking more about hating SJWs and maybe very rarely finding any comment on journalism ethics. The twitter feed for #gamergate entirely about attacking SJWs, abusing #notyourshield (because you shouldn’t use that kind of idealology if you’re effectively using status of minority and women to protect yourselves from criticism, that’s pretty damn hypocritical). It just really seems like this entire thing is about attacking Zoe and then lashing out at anyone else who speaks against the movement while simultaneously actively going “it wasn’t us!” any time something bad happens.

    • MsHennessy21

      How is this research not about the journalists involved? It’s sorta hard to talk about the situation without bringing her name up whatsoever. “A certain unnamed woman in the game industry”, it’s not as though people don’t know who we’d be going on about, but honestly, the end result still is the journalism. I don’t understand why this is a hard concept to grasp.

      Edit to add: If you read this and all you take from this is that someone is harassing Zoe Quinn then you need to take time to work on comprehension. Zoe Quinn’s honesty doesn’t remotely matter, because she’s NOT a journalist, the journalists lied about it, or at the very least stretched the truth.

    • Silence Dogood

      The multiple people aren’t relevant, just the individuals who should NOT be there for ethical reasons. Secondly, what the fuck is wrong with you? Where are you getting “harem” from you lunatic? Are you having some kind of break down because we just found evidence of yet another lie and you can’t find a way to explain it away?

      You don’t list 50+ people when you give thanks on the cover o a book. If you actually understood ANYTHING about gaming, you’d know that credit mentions are reserved for close friends and family and important team members. Books mention editors and one or two loved ones, and frequently not even by NAME.

      The article, had you read it, which I’m doubting, states that in 2013 THEY KNEW each other. Kotaku stated they knew each other causaul only the MONTH BEFORE the “game” released and then became fuck buddies the very next month (literally 1 day it seems). This credit drop contradicts that completely. She states “this game would have been dead in the water without you”, that’s a pretty dramatic comment.

      You want to know how she’s riding it to fortune and fame? PR is worth it’s weight in GOLD in any industry, but ESPECIALLY gaming which is very, VERY competative, especially when you don’t have any discernable talent. Ms. Quinn presently makes $36,000 a MONTH thanks to Patreon > her “supporters” are a mix of victimhood sympathizers and people who think her “game” is “truly special” and that “as a deeply talented artist she should be supported.”

      For christ’s sake she is almost ALWAYS described as “The Creator of the Critically Acclaimed Depression Quest” and then it’s followed by some kind of platitude making it out to be Half-Life 3.

      And are you on drugs? ZQ’s and Nathan Grayson’s RELATIONSHIP are the issue here, the evidence is that that relationship not only happened but that it happened BEFORE they claimed it did, thus CONFIRMING a conflict of interest. I’ve seen this logic before with people who want to defend pedophile priests: “Let’s focus on the victims, and not talk about the Church” – because in that instance the Church wasn’t COMPLETELY culpable for what happened.

      You want us to leave ZQ out of it entirely, but to do so would strip the inquiry of ANY ability to confirm deceit. In the words of the internet:

      Get. The. Fuck. Out.

    • Thomas Fährmann

      mu mu mu. Now begone if you cant even read an article and think for yourself what the relevance is. It´s not about slamming her shitty game or that she is just … you know. But how people are “accidently” involved in something they should not be… it´s like finding a needle in a haybale…
      And you are just another SJW muppet!

    • fjodor

      I must agree with you on your point here, desudesunyan – The GG focus seems weirdly misplaced on Zoë while it should be on the journalists and the media. One thing is to mention that person X have a relatoinship with journalist Y but this obsession with Quinn amongst the more prominent attributors of information is getting them nowhere fast. I guess, without excusing anyone or anything, Zoë must have managed to push some buttons.

  • Chase Middleton

    I dunno, maybe we should stop talking about ZQ. She’s not relevant, and this is just going to give her an opening to be a victim again.

    • Splash

      This is more about nathan, totillo and pretty much confirming their spiel about “zero conflict of interest” is total bullshit

  • Silence Dogood

    Awww I just had my thread closed on this article about how gamergate and anti-choice (wasn’t aware that was what it was being called) are “linked”. Insane feminist got the last word, which consisted of sexist, vulgar ranting. Apparently she didn’t like logic when I pointed out that subjective and objective are mutually exclusive and by saying that “reviews are inherently subjective” you are therefore stating that they CANNOT be objective. She also edited the shit out of her dozen of other posts to look less stupid… but not less hateful. Trying to weed out those contradictions lol. I did get to drop a great one-liner about Obi-wan’s “trust your feelings” doesn’t apply to reality because she wasn’t a Jedi though.

  • Valchrist

    A tiny build? It get’s smaller!? I watched a let’s play where they finished it 3 times in 10 minutes.

  • Guest

    Canadian journalists under fire for fear-mongering headlines leading: “Canada under attack” after gunman strikes the capital.

  • G ZA

    It seems they can’t keep their lie straight.

  • Jimmy Park

    I’m still amazed that she was able to use her “body” to get anything. These writer dorks must really be desperate because she’s a troll, both definitions.

    • Thomas Fährmann

      I cant imagine what that body was able to do… no…please no…!

  • Erthwjim

    So in an Indie game, one can safely assume that they would probably have friends or family of the development team test their game right? Meaning they didn’t just have a professional relationship.

    • Parrikle

      No. As an indie developer, you would certainly get friends and family to try it. But they’re not the best testers – they will often be reluctant to be really critical, or not necessarily match your target market. Instead you look for people who will given an honest opinion and understand the audience. Industry professionals, fellow developers, people who express an interest at things like PAX. And as you can’t always afford full time professional testers on staff, it is generally best to grab the opinions of as many people as you can convince to give it a shot.

      • Erthwjim

        So it’s different than AAA beta testing, because in AAA I’ve done beta testing, not just the online type but actually going to the studio while they record my gameplay and my face while I play and then I’d take a survey about the game every hour or so. I wasn’t paid for it, they just gave me a shirt and a free game. And that was something I had to sign up for and inform them of my hours played on certain games. I figured for an upcoming indie, they wouldn’t have a way to do that, but I also figured if they weren’t too known in the industry already, they’d reach out to family and friends to test the game for them, as they wouldn’t have the type of connections to really use people in the industry for that yet.

        • Parrikle

          Depends on the studio – I know one local studio that does formal testing, but a lot of the developers around here just send copies to anyone they can find and beg for feedback. We have a monthly get together of indie developers at the local pub – beer and games are a good combination, but then beer works with many things – and I’ve been asked to give some informal feedback with early builds, as well as passing on my own builds for feedback.

          At any rate, Grayson’s explanation here: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sdbke3 seems reasonable enough.

          • Erthwjim

            So here’s a question then, how often do indie developers send products to journalists to test before they’re released? And how often do journalists get thanked in game acknowledgements? Especially for offering only a couple lines of feedback? I just find it odd that for doing so little he was mentioned in the game’s acknowledgements.

          • Parrikle

            It is a good question – but I can’t help you there. I talk coding with other developers, and game design, but marketing is something we don’t get around to raising. We’re too busy showing off the latest build. 🙂 I’ll ask at the next pub night and see what others are doing.

          • Erthwjim

            Yeah that would be great, I’m really curious.

      • What about him then turning around and featuring it on Rock, Paper, Shotgun? Or doing Twitch videos with her? They were clearly closer than they let on. I don’t care about the sexual aspect. It’s about a person promoting a game he had a hand in, without revealing that to the audience.

  • Brit Bong

    Never happy to see the spotlight back on her, but that’s not really the case at this point.

    It’s Greyson and by extension Kotaku.

    Thanks to Quinn for admitting the level of connection that Greyson had in the project, despite his attempt to re-define it into something more benign.

    Credit where it is due, her opening up about his position as a beta tester is an important admission of interconnection that was not disclosed at the time.

    I’m sure Kotaku will be silent about this all the same.

    • Parrikle

      If we go by those tweets, Quinn said that Grayson was a tester, in that he presumably tested the game at some point. Grayson seems to clarify that by saying that he tried a single early build. Seems fairly consistent between the two, and very minor if we believe their accounts. I can understand not believing them, but there is nothing that contradicts them, either, or makes it into a significant conflict of interest.

  • Pingback: Depression Quest Credits Renew Developer-Media Collusion Speculation · PowerGamer()

  • Guest

    “Coulda gone to the credits” but really, who has the time to play a shitty game to completion when they could be doing better things?

  • Alex

    I’m still confused about the article he apparently gave it this golden review in. Anybody actually want to link to that?

  • smudboy

    Maybe I’m a bit biased as a web developer, but it doesn’t take dozens of people to make an HTML choose your own adventure story.

  • ArmoredBoar

    Regarding the updates.
    To be fair, she just said he was credited with the testers, as in alongside them.
    Just means he got special thanks, not that he was a tester.

    Sorry Ralph, but you jumped the gun there. Yes, they got further involved, but damn son you should keep your pants instead of constantly wanting to tear someone a new asshole.

  • Pingback: GamerGate and You: A Discussion of Gaming Journalism - Page 4 - GameFront Forums()

  • TeLin特林

    Hell, IGN didn’t even let that one lady who voiced acted in Mass Effect 3 review the game.

  • Pingback: #Gamergate Episode I – The Pinky Swear Investigation | Feels and Reals()

  • Pingback: Nathan Grayson Depression Quest Review | Top NewsDay()

  • Pingback: How Wikipedia Uses False Information To Defame #GamerGate | One Angry Gamer()

  • Pingback: GamerGate | Gaming is a Misogynistic, Caucasian Boy's Club | GamerGate()

  • Pingback: Game Jam Zoe Quinn | Sky Sporting()

  • Pingback: CBC Ombudsman Admits Journalist Misrepresented #GamerGate Information | One Angry Gamer()

  • Pingback: Freunde mit gewissen Privilegien | gamergateblog.de()

  • Pingback: Quebec Press Council Blatantly Lies To Cover-up Urbania's #GamerGate Inaccuracies | One Angry Gamer()

  • Pingback: kontes seo()

  • Pingback: 2 wheel self balance electric scooters()

  • Pingback: fuck google()