I’ve always been fascinated with the MGTOW movement. Ok, technically not “always,” but since I first heard about it, I have been. I know several people who claim, or have claimed at one point, to be of this persuasion. There seems to be different levels of devotion to the cause, at least among the devotees I’ve known. Some say they have no need of women at all outside of occasionally using prostitutes for sex or having one-night stands. Others told me they have relationships with the opposite sex, but refuse to get tied down in a marriage due to the institutions inherent unfairness to men. I’m very familiar with the Men’s Rights push, so that last point does have a bit of logic to it. Divorce courts are often biased toward mothers and women in general.

All that being said, there are also some themes I’ve noticed among MGTOWs that don’t hold as much water for me. First off let me preface these comments by noting that they don’t describe all MGTOWs. But one thing I often see is a strain of thinking that portrays the entire female sex as somehow more devious than men, more prone to lying, more to cheating on, and manipulating “good” men. There also seems to be a tendency among some to take their bad experiences with a woman (or women) and project that negativity onto the entire female population. Of course, this phenomenon is not exclusive to MGTOWs, since I’m sure most of you know women who do the same thing to men.

In both cases the thinking is flawed. There is no inherently “bad” sex, only bad individuals. Also, maybe the person who caused you pain wasn’t actually malicious, just unready for a serious relationship and the responsibilities that come with that. Or yea, it could just be that they were a huge piece of shit. Either way, their personal failings shouldn’t be transferred to all future romantic partners. I realize this is easier said than done, as I’ve been guilty of that myself. However, letting past bad experiences completely block your search for a long-term partner seems kind of drastic to me.

I won’t say it’s illogical, though. You can certainly protect yourself from some major league pain by limiting the depth and intensity of your relationships. The hurt that can be caused by an erstwhile lover is immense. Hell, even if things go mostly to plan, the regular suffering associated with life itself can feel unbearable at times. Taking on someone else’s trials and tears, perhaps watching them die in the end, is horrific. But to me, the much sadder outcome is to die alone and without the deep loving connection that we naturally crave.

I got married recently. Every vow I said, both the standard ones and the set I wrote, I meant with every fiber of my being. Still, there is a part of me that understands marriage as the risky proposition it is. One of the saddest things in life is when you have to mourn for the future you thought you were going to have. Even with that knowledge, even when I think about all the possible negative outcomes, even if one of them came to pass, I would never wish to take back the attempt. In my opinion, the risk is worth the possible reward.

  1. I think the best explanation to what MGTOW have in regards to women is this
    “The juice is no longer worth the squeeze”
    Gotta ask is this Ralph OR Ralphs wife writing this. No disrespect but if this is Ralph’s wife you’re not a male. There is a distinctly male experience to MGTOW. It’s a process that each man goes through. Typically called the Red Pill Rage most men move out of it after a while some though remain stuck there. This is the crowd that flocks towards MGTOW like Angry MGTOW and Mayor of MGTOWN.

    Yes, in one sense you’re right there’s a component to female companionship. That need can be filled with male friends and brothers just as easily. There have been proven techniques for channeling and directing sexual energy in constructive ways that don’t involve women. I already have a home and kids? You know what the current climate is like and I’m pretty damn sure you saw the Red Pill movie

    Currently the juice simply isn’t worth the squeeze. And life is too damn short to wait for society to wake up. I have a life and purpose to fulfill for myself.

    1. Pretty sure it’s Ralph since it says Ralph and not Nora.

      And I find it curious as well. There’s some that hate women, they’re basically the male version of radical feminists. Then there’s the ones that can’t be fucked. They have nothing against women, they just don’t want a relationship. They’re probably the most rational of the Red Pill lot since the main group that mocks them systematically goes through and either rejects every single thing a woman can offer except sex, claims that a man shouldn’t need those things, or claims that a man should not rely on others for those things.

      Then after portraying women as only capable of providing the benefit of sex yet having a great deal of costs associated with them it reaches the conclusion that… the worst thing a woman can do is reject your approach which is far less than the biggest concern and far less than the biggest concern they just named. “Game” does nothing for the physical, legal, or financial risk aspects and even if you’re not making any sexual advance at all you can still be a victim, say if you train a female subordinate and she throws bullshit accusations at you. So if you’re looking purely at the various Red Pill groups, “Pussy isn’t worth much so I won’t spend much of my life on it.” is a more rational conclusion than “Pussy is a commodity, but I’m still gonna go for it hard despite the risks so I can…?”

      It’s at this point that most people ambivalent on the subject take a third option and pursue a non Western woman, preferably from an Asian or Muslim dominant country. For example, Pakistan. These women are more grounded in reality and won’t give you nearly as many Dunning Kreuger related problems and come from submissive cultures. A lot of the bullshit is Western woman exclusive because first world problems. If you don’t have any problems, make some out of nothing.

      It’s really funny though when you consider there’s heavy overlap between the Red Pill groups and the whole calling people race mixing cucks group. Not everyone and maybe not even a majority, but it’s still funny when the same people who constantly talk about western women as a liability get mad when you take them at face value and pass on western women.

      1. I’ve never objected to strong willed women (as opposed to passive/submissive types). What I object to are -stupid- women who (as you note) embody Dunning-Krueger.

        It’s frustrating, because a lot of the former wind up quasi-feminists because they think that’s where they’re supposed to be. And I want to tell them ‘No! Stay away from that shit! It’s toxic and it’ll sap that blazing fire of willpower that I want to burn myself with!’

        But yeah. A lot of guys nowadays, they don’t HATE women, but they look at the scene and go, ‘Uh… no. No thanks.’ And I can’t entirely blame them.

        1. Neither do I. Which is really funny. The same people that call themselves alphas get triggered when they’re challenged by anyone. Alpha means not giving a fuck and doing your own thing regardless of whatever judgments randoms pass on you. Meaning, if someone challenges you you don’t get triggered, if you do you’re insecure, weak minded, and not alpha.

          The reality of the matter is if you’re a straight man higher value for you means higher risk for the same reward and a harder time getting it. Yes, harder.

          If the high value comes from finances, enjoy all the gold digging bitches effectively overcharging for sex.

          If it comes from personal success sure a lot more pussy gets thrown at you, but do you want it?

          If it comes from muscles you’ll get insecure superficial bitches because a very large number of people aren’t meeting some physical prowess bar for their own desires and satisfactions, they’re doing it because they’re insecure and appeasing others.

          If it comes from looks, same deal but milder.

          If it comes from intelligence you’re really fucked. Women are consistently in the middle of the range, very few dumb fuck women (in terms of IQ anyways, decisions are another matter HI FEMINISM) and very few super genius women. Have fun finding a woman on your level mentally and while you can aim down if you’re just looking for pussy if you’re doing it for the genius kids 2 smart parents are better than one.

          If you simply want pussy, alpha mindset alone will do it just because there’s so few of them. The problem comes when you start wanting other things. The even bigger problem comes when you spend all your time pursuing some basic need instead of advancing yourself.

      2. Oh there’s definitely that first group in there, simply cannot or will not get past their anger. The thing I do is make minimize their influence inside MGTOW. Reasoning with that faction is like trying to reason with a FemiNazi or Anti-Semite.

        Second group the can’t be fucked ones can just as easily fall under Incel and not MGTOW. This faction also exists Neither one of these factions is representative of all MGTOW, nobody is.

        Non western women quickly become westernized when they get here. There are MGTOW that have girlfriends Stardusk, Bar Bar, Sandman, Spetsnaz have all talked about girlfriends. So it’s not a complete male seperatist thing issue either. Although again that faction also exists in MGTOW.

        Other than a Marriage Strike and being Anti-gynocentric there’s very little MGTOW have in common.

        1. Telling the difference is pretty easy. If they say they can’t be fucked because they have more important goals than pussy it was their choice, if they immediately recount multiple bad experiences maybe it wasn’t.

          You’re definitely right about westernization happening quickly (at least when it benefits them). Someone recently remarked about how Arabic women were twice as backstab prone as whites and this coming from an Arabic man, kind of hard counters the whole go for Asian/Muslim women because the white ones are lost thing.

          I’m really pragmatic about the whole thing. Pussy is like Chinese food. No matter how bad you want it you’ll be hungry again within 3 hours of recieving it. Low value = low cost = if you get it great, but it’s pretty low on the priority chain.

          I’m also detached enough that I can make fun of anything and anyone so when I see a logical inconsistency, even in “my own side” I can chuckle.

  2. Hey you fat blubbering bitch, why don’t you share with everyone the prison nickname you have been given. Hint, it’s to do with the fact Ethan pissed himself his first night in.

          1. Liberals do not have a salt problem. They have a control problem. As in, they want to control everyone and everything .

          2. Why do I have to solve the problem of their brain damage? Dammit, I have games to play and food to eat and good beer to drink, it’s not like I’m bored 😀

          3. Because it’s funny? I was talking about their mentality though.

            Liberals demand control.
            They fail, because of course they do.
            Warnings about sodium.
            Government control of salt.

  3. I’ve looked for books that were academic studies, not pop commentary. For instance I skimmed a book on men’s fitness called something like “The Apollo Syndrome” by 2 Harvard professors. They mentioned that 30% of men never marry and passed on to their main subject of getting men to stop hitting the gym because Harvard professors don’t.

    The subject should be worth a doctoral dissertation but it seems to be avoided like avoiding the subject of death. No one wants to go out and interview MGTOWs.

  4. In the climate of current gender relations MGTOW is a rather natural reaction. Most MGTOW don’t even know about the phenomenon.

    While true that there are members of the group who generalise all women as evil most of them were hurt in one way or another and are simply in their red pill rage stage. Most MGTOW are very rational and don’t even care about the whole debate about gender politics – they just want to live their lives as they please and be happy.

  5. Women have always been the same since the birth of humans. The real problem is what you described, the misandrist divorce and family courts making marriage a huge financial and legal liability for men.

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