I’ve been kinda under the weather today, so I apologize for the lack of posting. When I woke up, I got to watching a documentary, so that cost me another couple of hours. But, here I am. Let’s get to the late-breaking news, before I go and cover what I missed for the day. It looks like two pro-GamerGate outlets are in an ethics slapfight with one another. Without judging, let’s take a look at the situation.
TechRaptor put out a report accusing GamesNosh of plagiarism earlier tonight. Here’s an excerpt from that piece:
It is with apprehension and a heavy heart that we have to bring the following information to light.
First off though, we’d just like to emphasize how much work we here at TechRaptor do to try to to do things right. We will most assuredly fail every now and again and expect the feedback we receive to only make us better.
We put a lot of effort into our original ethics policies, and an even larger amount of time and consideration into the new one we fully rolled out. The same can be said for anything we have rolled out for TechRaptor, like the information included on our Patreon.
We’re all about better journalism and know that it will do some great things for the community. However, we can not just stand by as someone capitalized on our hard work without a mention that it was taken from us. It’s worth mentioning that after some digging, both of these particular pages have been this way for months, and TechRaptor was never notified of the use of our ethics policy or Patreon page.
It has recently come out our attention that GamesNosh copied our original ethics policy nearly word for word, basically just changing “TechRaptor” to “GamesNosh.”
Here is the live version of their ethics policy and the archive of it. According to their website it went live September 1st 2014.
Here is the live version of TechRaptor’s policy (the old one). Ours went live August 31st 2014. We also have emails from August 31st announcing it to the staff.
Like I said, I have no comment to make about these charges. I’ve always been a big supporter of TechRaptor (and Ms. White), which is why you see them here on the page. The GamesNosh people are cool as well, and I have nothing against that outfit. I follow them on Twitter, and they seem to be a good outlet as well. To be honest, I don’t have time to scrutinize either one too closely, beyond reading some of their more interesting pieces. Still, I like to think that both are dedicated to ethical behavior.
GamesNosh put out a response a short time ago:
Followed by this from the official TechRaptor account:
Like I mentioned repeatedly, I’m not going to take a postion here. But I bet some of you all will. At least, I hope so. Let me know what you think down below in the #BasedCommentSection. I’m going to go round up some more news for the day. Hopefully, both sites can move beyond this dust-up relatively quickly.
50 comments
This one is easy – if you respect someone’s work and want to copy, you ask permission before you do so. Once you have permission, you link them credit.
They did not ask. They did not attribute credit.
This is plagiarism, plain and simple. This is disrespect, plain and simple.
Georgie has every right to be pissed, they robbed her.
While I’m completely in agreeance with you, I don’t think this was handled well, and part of being professional is controlling how you react to being pissed.
They copied, they plagiarized, they disrespected, they robbed, all that, I’ll give you.
However, public flaming is not the correct methodology, nor was the time constraint placed on the defending party, and nor was the attempt to hatemob the site through a hashtag group through pity.
Adults are dissuaded from throwing tantrums because it makes things worse, not better. This was not something to release to the public unless it became a larger problem over the course of a week or more, not a few hours.
None of what you say is inaccurate.
But, from an ethics and transparency perspective, it was fair to bring the public into this matter.
Ideally, the announcement that this had occurred should have come from GamesNosh with TR’s total public response on the subject being acceptance of the apology.
But, we live in reality. Stupid shit was said. But, the people doing the saying are people who have had my back for quite a while. So, what can I say?
I have to give them a bit of leeway. I’ll worry about it if it becomes the beginning of a pattern.
I agree fair,
The tweet’s the issue I have. And Techraptor seems to think they should have been more careful.
“Update 2 [6/17 6a CST] – We just wanted to take the time to apologize for not giving GamesNosh more time to reply to us. In hindsight, we should have given 72+ hours before making a move, but we did have a reason for publishing this. As many have noticed, sometimes our staff takes to social media with their opinions on issues like these, and social media is NOT the right place to begin discussions like these. This post was published in order to bring this all up without editorializing or sensationalizing, just presenting our findings and going from there. There was no harm meant, no bad blood, and it was never with the intention of drama or starting a fight – just presenting the facts, like we always do.”
I think in the future, they’ll be be more reserved, I just hope nothing bad comes from it.
First of all, I’m glad this is now resolved. So we can move on. But here are my thoughts:
Gamesnosh are in the wrong, as they accept.
It’s fairly minor.
TechRaptr should have handled this privately.
24 hours is nowhere near enough time.
Georgina should not test Gamergate with that kind of rhetoric.
I agree with that last point.
Yeah keep the e-celeb style blow-ups to KoP, both TR and GN screwed up here.
Although honestly, only thing I REALLY didn’t like was how fast she (Georgina) was to try and turn this on us with that loyalty line. Don’t be so quick to throw us all under the boss because some people disagreed with ya on things.
I agree with Both Chriss and WisdomCube2000, I hope that in the end both outlets will have learned from this experience.
Yeah especially since it’s the week of E3, so our focus will mostly be around E3. And yes that means Anita since she happens to be tweeting her disdain for it so often. Had this happened before or after E3 I think we would have paid more attention to the issue.
http://i.imgur.com/xGdx24n.gif
While I think what GamesNosh did is lazy and should have contacted TechRaptor about adopting their ethics policy, I think TechRaptor looks way worse in all of this just because of the way they handled it. It should have been dealt with behind closed doors, it’s not like GamesNosh was copying and pasting articles and making money. Also, Georgina Young needs to chill with the passive aggressive bullshit and trying to shame GamerGate into fighting her stupid little battle for her.
It’s an ethics policy. You should not only license that shit under Creative Commons, you should actively promote the idea of other websites copying it verbatim. A good ethics policy – even word for word – should be open and viral.
That doesn’t excuse copying it when you do not have clear permission, but still…
The best would probably be Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0, anyone using it must give credit and must allow others to use any modifications they make the same way they used the original:
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/
To be completely fair an ethics policy… or any policy declaration is not intellectual property. If I declare it is ny policy the customer is always right I don’t have dibs
Sure, but this would make that perfectly clear.
I don’t know how self centred one can be as Georgina was. How can gamergate possibly have dealt with the plagerism. We’ve got some incredibly resourceful and eagle eyed people, but they can’t get anything. Also it was incredibly baity in the way she worded it. At least its settled now.
Not to mention this is going on during E3 where just about every gamers’ focus is going to be.
She’s another Draiman trying to use us as their personal army.
*obligatory “writer for TR” ethics disclosure*
Now that that is out of the way, and speaking from my own personal feelings, I don’t particularly agree with the actions she took, but I to some extent understand them.
She had a big part in formulating the ethics policy at TR, it was something she put a lot of work into. Personally, I can understand the emotions behind it as I’ve had plenty of moments where I reacted the wrong way and said the wrong things.
Depends on what she does now, if she doubles-down I’m not going to be impressed.
Writer for TR here. Unsure on how to feel since I’ve been kinda avoiding my PC for extended periods of time due to moving to Arizona and our AC needs repairing. Yeah, hard to be motivated to be up to date when you’re melting.
That said, I’ve yet to read up on all of this myself to be absolute one way or another. The GamesNosh people have been nice and outside of bias for TechRaptor, I do enjoy the staffers along with Georgie. Everyone is an individual, I speak on behalf of myself, not TechRaptor.
Personally, I’d have liked the issue to be resolved all in private since the main focus during E3 should be E3. In a way, it’s a bit like save the cover on a much smaller scale. If the copying of our ethics policy is true, I think a simple “Would you mind if we adopted your ethics policy for our site?” probably would have went over better. Even then, basic ethics should be don’t be a dick and offer some nice content to the readers that wasn’t bought off. Not only for TR and GamesNosh, but all sites in general.
The way I’ve seen it blown up so to speak made it seem like a bigger deal as in actual articles are being copy pasted Wikipedia style. An ethics policy being universal honestly isn’t a bad idea – just make sure all parties are in agreement is all. Again, this is just my personal take. #GamerGate supporters are no one’s personal army and are adult enough to decide on who to back on their own. If ethics are the main issue, ethics will be what’s focused on. Way before GG existed, people like Anita Sarkeesian already set off red flags – those critical of her now have little relevance to GG as far as I’m concerned.
While I don’t always 100% agree with Ralph’s methods of reporting, I am a reader and do appreciate any kind words aimed at those I have affiliation with.
This shit right here is why I don’t get too ‘friendly’ with other publisthers of content and try to keep em at arm’s length.
There’s more to this story than meets the eye but again, I’m glad they got it resolved amicably and didn’t go with a huge dramafest over it.
Yes, nothing should be behind the scenes. If they want to be open and not have another GJP, even if they are on our side, they should be sharing in public the interactions they have with each other, even if it’s just about an ethics policy. Maybe not word for word, but at least the basics. Because beyond GG perhaps having an issue, the AGG side would try to use it against us.
We’re working the rest of it out now, I did fuck up in not attributing the actual script of the policy to TR and whomever wrote it. That’s my personal bad.
We’re gonna replace it with a more airtight screed from the SJP. We have been very serious about ethics in regards to games press and have always followed the tenants closely. I was lazy in putting TR’s policy on the site to let people know that, and wrongly assumed it wouldn’t be an issue.
I’m kinda iffy on this, but I’d lean more to the side of you not necessarily being in the wrong. You probably should’ve credited them at least, as someone else did put in the effort of writing it up, but it shouldn’t be worth getting too worked up over. This is just a disclaimer, general information that audiences should expect of every site (especially as of GamerGate), and it’s not really something everyone visits to give you page views. Had you stolen a news report word for word, that would’ve been far more easily condemnable, but such wasn’t the case. Hopefully, you can settle this with a simple apology and move on.
What you people need to do is wash the dirty laundry behind closed doors, both parties, this kind of shit flinging belongs in SWJ fascism, not two sites born out of GamerGate.
That twit from Georgina was a total travesty.
Here’s hoping everything will be solved soon and in a discreet fashion.
Having been a frequent user of both sites, I lost a lot of respecr for TR on this one. Yes, the policy was copied. Should have been rectified through private convo not public bitch fest. If you want to replace the asinine juvenile cunts we are all fighting against, DONT BECOME THEM. Goddamn georgie is two minutes away frim declaring to be a fucking megaphone. Handle shit with the professionalism you think you deserve.
TR made multiple mistakes and you don’t see anyone publishing articles about it.
They get away with it by saying “we all fail at one time” yeah but a news site should not fail as many time as you guys have! We have given you guys multiple free passes. TR you did this as a business move. Well played.
I know I’m a bit late to this party but Georgina should’ve thought twice about posting that tweet. I get she is upset, Hell I would be pissed too, but when I read the message it comes off as she is attacking GG as a whole. Without context one would have thought she called it quits.
Again I’m not saying GamesNosh is without sin, so to speak, but I have to agree this should have been a private matter before calling it out. Had GamesNosh not apologized, or had they given the middle finger instead, then by all means putting them on blast would have been understood.
Yeah…sounded like a sjw freaking out.
best way to avoid this don’t be lazy
An ethics policy? Not an article interview or news item?
That’s honestly worth an argument much less anything than a minor call out?
Dat tweet
http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x54/TrueX-Ray/TNG%20Caption%20This/TNGCaption83a.jpg
I don’t think I ever agreed so much with you Ralph. Good sense all around.
As I’ve already said GamesNosh has in his staff an ayytist journo so for what I care they and their sympateitc site can burn to the ground.
With all the shit AyyTeam tried against GG…pro-GamerGate my ass.
,,,,yawwwnnnn,,,uhh,,,sooo sleeepy,,,whut? Ass-sex policing?,,,hmmm,,,,zzzzzzzzzz,,,,,
Nothing to do with the article, but we have more E3 SJW insanity, this time coming from a person in marketing.
https://archive.is/goOki#selection-1003.0-1005.8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJpOP1DtnQo
GamesNosh immediately acknowledged and apologized. This should be put to rest in light of that.
Well thats a other 2 sites i wont support any more
This shit should have never gone in the open or on twitter
Please stop using the GG name (the both of you)
Wow …
“Support me #GamerGate or I will turn against you.”
Seriously Georgina, if that’s your sentiment you were never part of GamerGate at all.
(Did you only support it for personal gain?)
Those are SJW-tactics. And we should not give in to them.
Show support for TechRaptor, if you think it’s important. But don’t do it to “look good”.
Also the ethical violations of Feminist Frequency are HUGE in comparison to this. There is no reason to not call them out.
Plagiarism is not a non-issue, but this case is not the most important thing in the world.
This should have been handled privately at first, rather than invoking the court of public opinion, as the anti’s so frequently do. I can, however, understand the concern that Techraptor might have when it comes about getting to said court of public opinion first. Gamesnosh has a bit of a reputation that some of Gamergates less, um, critically minded, supporters might not be able to see past (seriously people, we’ve supposed to have learned to NOT blindly support people based solely on their own assertions), so I can understand Techraptors urge to come forth. Then of course there’s also the cynic in me that sees this as a potential play to divert more traffic their way. Personally I advocate viewing them both, equally, if you’re one of the sort who only visits one or the other. I’m glad this was resolved, but they both need to definitely learn how to be more “mature” about it. I, for one, do appreciate the disclosure of the issue.
Georgina, Don’t start by throwing us under the bus. Because I’ll gladly throw you under a T-90 tank the next time you come under attack. Everyone else, meh, I can’t speak for everyone else.
Disclaimer. I write for TechRaptor. What I’m about to say is entirely my point of view, and doesn’t reflect the attitude of the site. TechRaptor will be releasing an official statement soon.
I’m not going to mince words and I’ll be brief as possible.
1. Regardless of whether it’s legalese or something thought of as inconsequential, it’s still ultimately plagiarism. The very first thing they teach you in any college is not to use work without citing sources. Period.
2. 24 hours was not enough time to amend this issue, especially during E3. Especially if it’s 24 hours before you release an article detailing what should probably be dealt with internally. In the interest of transparency, it’s not the worst move – but it does appear bullying.
3. Be very careful about generalizing. Just because one or two writers go off the hinge doesn’t mean the entire body of writers is. It’s the same thing as accusing GG of harassment just because there’s a bad egg.
4. In summation, this entire shit storm would have never occurred had there been a single voice of objection at taking someone else’s work, no matter how banal, without proper credit due – or at the very least, an e-mail. The way the situation was handled could be vastly improved upon, but was hampered by the fact that people in the writing staff already knew about it, forcing TechRaptor to play a bad hand before people went off the handle. Which people did anyway. Everyone has a lesson to learn out of this, and I do mean everyone: GamesNosh, TechRaptor, and GamerGate. Let’s chalk it up to growing pains and call it a day, because frankly this entire topic bores the shit out of me.
5. As far as this being some sort of power play to divert traffic from GamesNosh to us: absurd. We’re both relatively small outlets and there’s not a strong drive to cannibalize one another, especially when there are juicier targets out there like Polygon or Kotaku that alienate their readership on a daily basis.
Thanks for bearing with me. Remember to use Deepfreezeit to report any unethical behavior. I personally encourage EVERYONE to hold every site, TechRaptor especially because my body of work is eternally linked to it, accountable for ethical violations.
Hold up. Loyalties?
By definition, GG is loyal to ethics, and ethics only.
GG is not interested in creating writers and then shielding them.
It is interested only in integrity, be ethical, and you’ve nothing to worry about.
It’s not a personal Lynch mob at people’s beck and call for people or businesses who mess with you. It’s for pointing out bullcrap and unethical behavior.
GG is not a defense force, GG is not loyal, if it ever is loyal, it has failed and should be taken down immediately.
Way to go Techraptor and Gamenosh! Wow I actually have to side with Gamenosh on all of this, and I don’t even visit there site. The problem as I see it, is that even though Gamenosh was wrong in what they did, Techraptor handled this whole affair in an unprofessional manner, this is E3 week of course you have to give them a reasonable timeframe to repond back. As far as Georgina’s comment goes, there oddly placed considering that the issue was revolving around the ethics policy and not any particular article (unless someone can correct me on that one).
It’s just an ethics policy, who cares? TechRaptor should be PROUD that their ethics policy is good enough to be the standard and that others want to duplicate it.
Well first off it is a little disconcerting that the three sites have been working together behind the scenes. Not that there is anything wrong with it, but that’s part of what got gamergate started in the first place. If there are talks between sites, even if it is to have similar ethics policies, it is best to make sure the information about such interactions is public (and perhaps it is and I missed it somehow). We don’t want another GJP even if it happens to be journalists that support gamergate.
But moving on from that, if there were ongoing conversations about aligning ethics policies, I think GamesNosh should have actually made some sort of inquiry in that group before copying the TR one verbatim, GN is in the wrong on that, but at least they were willing to admit that. On the TR side, they should have given GN more time to reply, or waited until post E3 to say something. But I think since GN has apologized, it’s time to shake hands and move on.
This is one of the busiest weeks in games journalism and nothing against Georgina, but trying to get people to focus on something that is not related to E3 is very difficult, and although Anita is not important, she has put herself into the middle of E3, where all the focus already is, so it’s pretty hard to ignore her. So Georgina, if you read the comments, please don’t take it as a personal affront to you, there are no loyalties or lack thereof because of this, it’s just bad timing.
Wow…when I read the title I thought someone plagiarized an article.
But seriously…”hard work” is an ethics policy. Yeah. Ok. Silly waste of an article. Why did the readers need to even know this? As others have said…handle it between the other offending party next time.