New e-drama is brewing between 2 youtubers once again: Wooly Bumblebee and Sargon of Akkad. This article will just go over the timeline of events for anybody who wants to get caught up before forming an opinion of their own.

DISCLAIMER: I’m trying to remain neutral about this issue, remember that I am not Ralph. I look up to Sargon as an established youtuber and leading figure in the anti-feminist movement but I also participate in streams with Wooly Bumblebee. I’m caught between a rock and a hard place through this. My decision was thus not weighing on either side and simply listing the facts and ask unbiased questions to both of them. I have done an interview with Wooly already and also have one scheduled with Sargon on Monday. I will wait until I have both sides to release them at the same time on my YouTube channel.

The controversy surrounds a petition started by Carl Benjamin (Sargon) on April 20th for suspending social justice courses in universities. The petition currently holds close to 23,000 signatures.

 

2016-04-23_12-06-53
https://www.change.org/p/universities-suspend-social-justice-in-universities

 

At the same time, Sargon posted a video on his channel to explain his motivations behind it (41 minutes long):

 

 

Vee has also made a video supporting the petition (2 minutes long):

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRykhs_QSDs&

 

Not everybody was in favour of it, feminist Kevin Logan made a video criticizing the petition (11 minutes long):

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeVM9SnJa_k&

 

Sargon released another follow-up video on the 21st (5 minutes long):

 

 

No drama yet, until later that day when Wooly Bumblebee tweeted to Sargon.

tweet1

tweet2

tweet3

 

She then invited Sargon to a stream on her channel at 4pm PST (7pm EST or 12pm GMT):

stream2

 

Here is the stream from Wooly Bumblebee’s channel, Sargon and Vee join around the 1:22.00 mark (4.5 hours long):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Qp3c1N4kqw&

 

NOTE: I was not part of that stream myself.

The next day, on April 22nd, Sargon released another video on the topic (14 minutes long):

 

 

That same day, Wooly published an article on her own blogging site Problematic People:

Sargon Of Akkad is Promoting Censorship

Then her husband MrWoolyBee wrote an article of his own:

Updated title: Bellum Sacrum – A Definite Hate Read for Sargon of Akkad’s Fanboys and Girls

NOTE: Bellum Sacrum means Holy War or Jihad.

Sargon replied that same day in a stream with Vee and Kevin Logan, which was then joined by Wooly and her husband around the 1:17.00 mark (3 hours long):

 

 

Wooly and her husband replied to Sargon’s stream in a follow-up stream of their own (3.5 hours long):

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsHUOP3q__M&

 

FINAL THOUGHTS

TL;DW

Actually, I did watch it all but if you want to get caught up on the entirety of all the details of the argument, that’s over 12 hours of videos to watch.

I don’t disagree with everything that Sargon is saying. What I do disagree with, is the method in which he did the petition and the way he worded it, because it doesn’t help our side being anti-feminist, you know, against feminism, whatever you want to call yourself. It just doesn’t help. It makes us all look like hypocrites and advocating for censorship when it’s worded in that way, when it’s put out in the way that Sargon put it out. That’s my biggest problem with it because we’re already being tarred and featheerd and misrepresented by feminists SJWs. We don’t need more fuel out there for them to constantly misrepresent us and they can use this to misrepresent us and they wouldn’t be far wrong if they took that petition literally.
-Wooly Bumblebee, 9.8k subs

Yeah. I mean we wouldn’t want to stifle these poor special snowflakes right to use government funded institutions to push a totalitarian political narrative that threatens to turn our society into an orwellian nightmare like it already has in certain european countries. That would be mean. 🙁 F****ing idiots.
-Naked Ape, 42k subs

The petition is the first step towards organised resistance to social justice. Please sign it and make your voice heard.
-Sargon of Akkad, 301k subs

76 comments
  1. There is not much controversy here, really. Sargon made a petition to demonstrate the public’s dissatisfaction with Social Justice courses in universities, especially given how taxpayer money is used to teach bigotry to students. He isn’t doing anything wrong, let alone authoritarian.

    1. Exactly. He’s not saying to make more rules on speech, he’s saying to not make any more because of social justice whiners.

    2. Wooly BumbleBee is having a stream with a couple of feminists and SJWs as guests. So closet SJW? People on KIA are also seeing this petition as “problematic” and assume they are including the social sciences in the social justice subjects…. KIA is full of hypocrites and retards at this point.

    3. I’ve yet to see a coherent argument as to how the courses in question have any academic or practical value. None of the other cranks get to come in and preach gibberish as a curriculum, it’s just SocJus and the Marxists in general who get this special little exception.

  2. Having seen a lot of this I am very unimpressed with Wooly Bumblebee. Raising your voice doesn’t make your argument any better and she did this a lot. Insulting those who disagree with her and declaring them triggered, not very impressive. It also appears as if she takes a lot of her opinions from her very loud boyfriend. The more I look at it it seems she was just trying to use this for a subscriber bump, which has failed as she has lost subscribers instead.

    Facts should be taught in universities, it is not censorship to declare this.

  3. I have a problem with lies, bigotry, authoritarianism and misandry being taught to children and students. Burn it all down for the good of the human species.

    Advocating for the truth is not censorship.

    Good on Sargon.

    1. Also, judging by the amount of bullshit “arguments” WoolyBumblebee and her husband spewed, why do I get the feeling that these two are nothing more than Social Justice advocates hiding behind a mask? I mean, this isn’t the first time WoolyBumblebee attacked Sargon of Akkad…

        1. Anyone who uses “problematic” unironically is a fucking SJW, closet or otherwise. My guess is they think they can “reach us” in their current guise.

          1. What about using it mockingly, or as a title?

            Damn it. I knew I should have capitalized.

          2. “Anyone who uses “problematic” unironically is a fucking SJW, closet or otherwise. ”

            What is the matter, triggered by the word “problematic.”? What a special snowflake you are. I guess you need a safe space to protect your delicate self from reading that word.

          3. And you’re the autist responding to a 3 month old post. Christ with a handbag where do these people come from?

      1. They certainly talk the talk. The husband is the worst of them though. I don’t think they’re honest actors in this discussion. Their argument boils down to people should think for themselves but that is difficult when you’re presented with factually inaccurate information and the scaffolding being built for you to climb to critically think about a subject is based entirely on erroneous information. You are starting from a faulty position that you are led falsely to believe is correct. People don’t attend university and question their professors, why would they? I’m paying them to educate me, not for the opportunity to refute their course. Like Vee said many times over both streams, why attend university if that’s the thing you need to do? Why not just look it all up yourself? The husband I think is a former professor. I know why he is not currently one based on his reasoning and presentation skills.

        1. All the husband could do was keep repeating the ‘this is censorship!’ card over and over again by raising his voice, shouting and talking over Sargon of Akkad. He especially did this whenever Sargon started bringing up good points (like he usually does) that counter their “arguments”.

          They also avoided answering Sargon’s questions near the end by continuously deflecting and skirting the questions.

          I’m not implying anything, but this behaviour is one of the hallmarks of a Social Justice Warrior.

          So based on what they said, their attitude and their behaviour in the videos, it wouldn’t be a mistake to class these pair of pricks as SJW-lites.

    2. Exactly. Denying people the “right” to lie while pretending it’s true (whiteness is evil and men are scum etc) is not censorship – ONLY the truth has a right to be propagated BECAUSE IT’S THE FUCKING TRUTH!

    3. Wooly BumbleBee is having a stream with a couple of feminists and SJWs as guests. So closet SJW? People on KIA are also seeing this petition as “problematic” and assume they are including the social sciences in the social justice subjects…. KIA is full of hypocrites and retards at this point and have showcased it with the whole Death Note, GITS, Iron Fist nonsense as well (“Follow the comic lore! No there’s not rule to follow the comic lore!” FFS they should make up their minds).

    4. sigh, I’m watching the new livestream with TWBB and they are talking some bullshit during the stream that some sciences are just as bad as the social justice subjects… I still say she’s a closet SJW.

  4. I agree with sargon here, I think wooly bumblebee went full SJWtard with that stopping people teaching SJW bullshit in gov funded universities as truth is censorship.

  5. Yeah, maybe you didn’t watch Sargon’s stream or bungling Bumblerambler’s post-stream nonsense, but I think you either didn’t watch them or have some other impediment with your power of detecting extreme levels of stupidity.

    I don’t know if the Wooly’s have a drug habit, if they casually ingested a bottle or two of wine prior to coming to ‘discuss’ or if their combined IQ hovers slightly below the 120 mark, but yesterday’s display of complete and utter retardation was extremely hard to endure.

    1. I watched it all and believe me, it is hard not to express an opinion publicly about it. I know both sides and have/will interview them so I’m reserving my opinions for later on.

      1. I don’t know if interviews are necessary to get to the core of the schism or clarify positions. Sargon is asking for accredited universities to employ objective peer review on SocJus courses because they are inaccurate and do not reflect what is borne from the evidence. In the mean time, he’s asking for suspension of those courses as they do not reflect an accurate academic theory presently.

        Wooly Bumblebee’s crew’s argument is based on free speech and claiming that suspending courses is censorship because that information would not be not accessible except there’s many points in which their argument falls flat on it’s face. The glaring hole in their argument is that the academic process and objective peer review process is designed to separate fact from fiction and it is the mission statement of all accredited universities to give their students an accurate, factual education. SocJus is not objectively peer reviewed and many (weasle word, I know. Sorry) academics according to people like C. H. Sommers and Sad Gaad are not impressed with the methods or findings of SocJus studies and are rife with errors and assumptions. The universities should only be concerned with teaching factually accurate academics as that is their purpose. The debate of ideas is not taking place in universities on this topic and that is what Sargon is addressing. This whole concept of what accredited universities are and the service they’re supposed to supply to the students and society at large seems to be totally lost on the Wooly Bumblebee crew as they want to turn the conversation to the morality of government intervention and the preservation of free speech. They are not fully baked arguments and misapplied in this context.

      2. Been a while. I gather you’ve meanwhile enjoyed the full Bunglebee treatment?

        Welcome to the club. I do hope your initiation left you with an intact sphincter.

  6. I’ve watched and read a majority of the content on the subject at this point and I still don’t see where the Wooly Bumblebee side has any legs at all. They seem to not understand what accredited universities are and how teaching nonsense from a point of authority to students is damaging to society.

    1. I came across the bumble during the davis vs jordan owen sarkeesian effect nonsense, and she’s just a shit stirrer on youtube, not really any good content or anything

      1. I did find it hard to follow their logic. It seemed too tied up in this strange libertarian ideal that they’re trying to apply in a situation where it’s not applicable.

  7. Banning SJW classes like “humanities” and “social science” in college and universities is not “authoritarian”. The Japanese have already done something similar. These classes don’t belong there anyways and are a waste of time.

    1. part of sargon’s idea is a banning but only temporary the ban would as far as i understand it it would be banned until the entire thing had been reviewed, and fixed. not like i would prefer torched to the ground, then sift through the ashes for useful and relevant things if there’s enough then maybe make the useful stuff one class that people can take.

        1. Banning never works though, it just makes things more attractive be it drugs, behavior, or ideologies. I’m with Sargon in saying that SocJus needs to be academically dissected, reviewed, and the misinformation and lies academically proven false and disgarded. That is the way to stamp out the evils of the SocJus movement for good, not simply banning it.

          1. If we really did dissect, examine, review and remove all the lies and misinformation from Social Justice courses there would be nothing left of them anyway. lol

          2. I think all that would be left would be unprovable rhetorical theory only fit for internet blogs and new age hippies.

          3. How would it not work? If the classes are not there plenty of time and money will be saved. I cannot tell you how many times I’ve seen students graduate with tons of student debt with a sociology or humanities degree and cannot find a job. Besides, no one is telling people that they cannot study these subjects but there just won’t be classes on it. This is not doom and gloom here. We will survive.

          4. You don’t think the SJWs would say “LOOK! Society and the universities are so bigoted and racist they don’t even want to talk about it or want us to talk about it. We’re the rebels, we’ll take on the man. You want to feel important and fight the good fight? Help people and be virtuous? Join ISIS…. er, I mean SJWs today!”

            It would be a huge propaganda victory for them. Whereas careful and surgical refudiation and an intellectual dismantling leaves nothing left to cling to and gives easy ammunition to those wanting to stamp it out in the future if it rises again.

          5. Agreed.

            Perhaps the better petition would have been to demand Universities offer courses in Classical Liberalism taut by Conservative and Libertarian thinkers.

            You know offer differing viewpoints and let the students sort that out for themselves (the opposite of what the SJW’s want on campus).

  8. At this point, modern Social Justice should be treated like a religion. It should be separate from everything else. And if they want their universities to be “Social Justice oriented”, then they need to make their own flipping university somewhere. Sargon is completely correct with his petition, because you don’t see universities assimilating to Scientology…

  9. I signed that petition. The reason being I really want all courses taught in university and schools to be fact checked, built on a consensus of clearly laid out studies/evidence (of both broad and specialist participants) and for students to know at the application phase what is to be covered and the general tone of the course.
    In STEM, topics like the laws governing force, gravity, organ function, chemical application, hydrodynamics, atomic bond information, established calculus/statistical/geometry formulae are clearly labelled, well cited and provided form a long sequence of testing and proofing.
    By contrast art, psychology, “studies” courses and others seem to have no problem towards taking an ~idea~ and using it as the bases of an entire educational field regardless of the neutrality, viability, volume of information, peer review, controversy or limited history of the very subject they are trying to teach a new generation of people about.
    By all means state an idea but to not teach it as unmitigated fact until the scientific and historical consensus has been reached and agreed upon by those participating from a number of different perspectives. It is one thing to have your friends agree with you, it is quite another to have your opponents admit to the merits of your scientific work/examinations. To date very few of the subjects I hear many “studies” students verbalise have not had a firm dissenting voice citing impartial test data, ideological lenses used for confirmation-bias, low sample sizes and insufficient representative data as a rational counterargument, quite simply we need more data and discussion before we walk well meaning people down a path that may well close behind them.

    1. TL:DR, if we are teaching something it is better to have that course material be open to professional scrutiny early and often than for it to be created, taught, reinforced and sent out into the wilderness to get crushed under the merciless boots of reality. For the majority off all students education is a path and a tool for future use and consideration not the destination or final phase.

  10. As I understand it, Sargon is calling for a banning and revisiting, not a complete cut off. IDK I think he has the right idea. Classrooms are a place of learning facts and truth, not really a hugbox. Want to learn how to do advanced trig? Fine. Want to learn some art? Cool, we got you covered. Want to be an accountant, a scientist, a psychologist? We can help with that.

    Want to take Feminism 101? Sorry. We don’t offer those classes anymore due to TRYING TO INCREASE OUR GRADUATES CHANCES OF FINDING CAREERS AFTER THEY GRADUATE.

    That’s my take on it anyway. The “SJW” classes are just… there. They’re like a placebo class, only fit for spreading idealogues, and don’t contribute to society on a professional OR personal level.

    Should they be banned outright? idk. But they should definitely be reviewed heavily by someone who isn’t likely to cave from pressure by either side. (I’m looking at you, Mizzou)

  11. I never knew why people didn’t like Wooly Bumblebitch & co. but now I do. She’s the complete package with a loud mouth husband, a Squidward nose and a voice that makes children cry. Channels like hers will eventually fail anyway so there’s no point giving a shit about her really.

    1. No clue to the truth of the claims, and honestly don’t care because she annoys me enough to choose to ignore her. But over the past couple months, where she seems to be coming into the conversation again, I have her the words con artist multiple times.

    2. Too bad a friend of mine watches her frequently. Then again, he’s let this kind of work eat him alive, so he’s kinda lost anyway.

    3. It definitely smells like jealous drama whoring, she’s done it before with Sargon. She’s been on youtube for quite a long time, I remember watching a few vids from her before I ever heard of Sargon; maybe even before he made his channel. The first couple vids seemed alright but after watching a few more all I saw was spilled pasta. Sargon’s a newer YTer than her and he’s at 300k subs, she’s at sub 10k. This just felt like she was trying to “get” a large youtuber so she could have the prestige of winning against a larger channel. If that’s not the case then her and her husband together have an IQ level twice my age.

  12. Think of it this way: some people still think that the earth is actually flat, or it’s only 6000 years old. There is numerous proof that both of those things are false. If I had kids, I wouldn’t want them being taught falsehoods and opinions in school.

    If a parent wants to teach their kids about socialism and feminism on their own time, that’s their right. But having it be mandatory in schools? NOPE.

  13. Bumblebee seems to be a bit of SJW”lite”. This is absurd, and she doesnt seem to be able to tell the truth from lies. If people are so worried about anti-“feminists” maybe they need to look at what “feminism” has become. Most WOMEN are anti-feminist at this point because of the raw insanity that spews out of trash-holes like Jessica Valenti. People want to stop feminism because the peopole identified with feminism are more “chantay binx” than they are “Christina Sommers”

    1. Bring this up to a modern feminist and you’ll be told one or both of the following:

      “NOT ALL FEMINISTS ARE LIKE THAT!”

      “THEY ARE NOT FEMINISTS!”

      Despite mainstream media, news outlets, magazines, TV, adverts, women’s organizations, campaigns, activists, etc. all being represented by the Jessica Valenti types…

  14. Bumblefuck and co should fuck off to LibertarianLand where there is no fucking government interference in anything at all…their idea paradise….Somalia.

    If the Bumblefucks and their ilk had their way there would be no controls on what schools and colleges taught…..and if you think thats a good idea take a look at what local school boards across America get up to on a regular basis:- trying to ram the Bible and Creationism into the classroom, and fucking kids over for exercising their constitutional right not to stand and prattle off that dumbass Pledge like the rest of the drones they share classes with. Look at what Don the Dentist and the Texas State School Board tried to do, and carry on doing to this day….turning fucking educational textbooks into quackadoodle revisionist claptrap full of gawd, gunz and GOP guff.

    Fuckin mongos….
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QDv4sYwjO0

  15. This is a perfect example of why the rest of the world thinks this entire movement is a joke. A bunch of self important YouTube marks that are so up their own asses they have no idea that nobody gives a shit anyway.

    1. A member of congress is suing the Dept. of Edu. for promoting gender feminism’s rape culture theory in kangaroo courts. This is not a movement. This is men who want to be left alone.

  16. In the U.S., there should be Congressional hearings into Women’s and Gender Studies Classes. All faculty should be fired under federal hate crime and Title IX legislation. Classes should be ended and a moratorium of two years ensue. They can be reintroduced with an oversight panel of 9 people: 4 liberals, 4 conservatives and one libertarian. All teachers, courses and text books must be approved by a majority 7-2 vote.

    This is not a question of censorship but one of hate speech, academic rigor and the very system of accreditation by which schools have the right to issue degrees people can trust. There is no inherent political or academic right to teach the center of the Earth is hollow at our nation’s universities. There is no inherent right to teach that heterosexuality is fake, can be cured or to memory-hole history until straight white males seem little more than demons. There is no scientific or historical basis for alleging that heterosexuality was invented by men to control women or they also instituted the taboo against incest in order to control arranged marriages and suppress lesbianism and homosexuality in general. That is cultish nonsense.

  17. I think Sargon should’ve clarified on this, because there’s a huge difference between “social justice” and “social justice warrior”.

    However, this is like their “white privilege” classes and shit, so I’m totally with Sargon.

    1. No. There really isn’t. A social justice warrior simply advocates for social justice and is extremely militant about it. Thus, the “warrior” moniker.

        1. It can be, yes. But this isn’t Social Justice on its own. This is Marxism dressed up to pretend to be Social Justice.

  18. i don’t always see eye to eye with sargon (although i do like him very much) but in this case i have to agree with him whole heartedly. it is not censorship to stop teaching things that are demonstrably false. it sure seems to me that the wooly bumblebee family is being willfully obtuse in claiming that every instance of limiting speech is censorship.

  19. “The petition is the first step towards organised resistance to social justice.”
    THIS, so much. Whether you consider this censorship or not, it’s pretty clear that SJWs have gotten out of control to the point that you’re unable to so much as start a proper debate with them. Try to say ANYTHING in opposition to them, and you’re somehow a bigot. Doesn’t matter how proper and convincing of an argument you make, you’re always just a bigot to them. Of course, clearing the infection out of the education system should be the first step. As Sargon says, we don’t need classes based solely around a bunch of lies to indoctrinate students into thinking it’s okay to stunt any debate so long as the right opinions can come out on top. Though, one should only look at the pathetic state of colleges over the last few years to see that something clearly needs to change.

  20. I’m not sure where to come down on this one. Sargon wants universities to stop teaching on a subject completely, not advocating a debate or to teach other viewpoints.

    He doesn’t mention taxpayer funded universities either way.

    If Sargon was merely advocating the complete rejection of the suppression being done in the name of SJ, I’d agree.

    So, technically, the petition condemns TEACHING SJ theory, but not ACTING in all the SJW suppressive ways, letting the idiots invite the worst portion like BLM on campus, and otherwise doing all the things we despise.

    The petition is minimally badly written. At worse, it is what its opponents reject.

    To clarify, we are calling for the teaching of social justice courses in universities to be temporarily suspended.

    I’m not sure if there are any “social justice” courses. If you are pointing at Gender studies or Women’s studies, or others, and who decides? “No SJWs here!”? Or do we create our own star chamber?

    And these university courses aren’t free. Why are their parents paying for them or why are the students themselves going into debt? If they are required, that would be something to petition about.

    If you volunteer and pay for indoctrination, it may be bad, but it is your right. Or does Sargon want to indoctrinate with his views?

    Personally, I think the entire university system with its accreditation and degrees is a scam and fraud – you can get the knowledge on line, much free, a few hundred dollars at worst, for a useful skill or even some expertise.

    What Sargon should be petitioning for, is for the destruction of the closed minded, expensive, crony university and college system in its entirety, if he is both serious and consistent. It isn’t just the SJW courses, it is the vapid English Lit (that doesn’t even cover it properly), dumbed down math and engineering where you can’t calculate without a computer with a program that already knows all the minutiae, biology that uses faked data, the soft (headed) sciences like economics that push Keynes over Mises, psychobabbleology, and the rest.

    The whole extremity is gangrenous, only the tip of the SJW specific stuff has made it into clear necrosis with the stink of the rotten dead flesh.

  21. I remember reading an article a while back about a student whose physical health actually declined because of one of these courses. Why? Because the course was placing activisim over actually learning about a subject. This shit is physically and mentally harmful to society, and people are tired of it. Look at Mizzou. That bullshit has cost them enrollment, at least five figures, and two buildings. How can people not see that teaching this shit is harmful?

  22. Insisting on academic rigor has nothing to do with censorship. Insisting a book about the Ottoman Empire be footnoted is not censorship. Insisting the insane Andrea Dworkin prove her contention that Hobbit-like sorcerers lived under trees in England until the 17th century and then passed their powers of levitation and telepathy to a secret coven of European witches, 9 million who were then burnt at the stake over 300 years is not censorship.

    “The first division of labor, in pre-history, was based on sex: men hunted, women built the villages, took care of children, and farmed. Women collectively controlled the land, language, culture, and the communities. Men were able to conquer women with the weapons that they developed for hunting when it became clear that women were leading a more stable, peaceful, and desirable existence. We do not know exactly how this conquest took place, but it is clear that the original imperialism was male over female: the male claiming the female body and her service as his territory (or property).”

    That’s Charlotte Bunch, the woman who created and headed up Rutgers U women studies division starting in 1989. She made that stuff up out of her head. There is no historic record of such a thing having taken place. It ought not be taught. That is not censorship, it is insisting on academic rigor.

  23. Fuck that Joe bumblecunt. Fucking bet his wife uses a strap-on cause we know he has no balls. fucking cuck.

  24. Fucking bastards. Now I have to sit through 12 hours of Youtube drama. I hate you people sometimes.

  25. I sometimes find Sargon to be full of shit, but not in this case. The SJW crap being taught in schools is in many cases, DEMONSTRABLY FALSE. Yet these classes are permitted to be taught without any kind of rigorous review because it complies with the established SJW narrative. It has no more place in schools than creation “science” since both adhere to approximately the same level of critical inquiry and objectivity.

    People calling this censorship are also grossly lacking in objectivity. Seems likes it’s just virtue signalling for libertarians.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *