GUEST Editorial by @GamerGateSF

(English is second language, like me LOL, but it’s still quite coherent.)

I’ve heard stories about the infamous GamerGhazi subreddit, but they seemed almost unbelievable. I think you should always try to make up your own opinion, and not form it based on what others tell you. So, I went there and started to browse, saw this thread and started reading until I came to some comments about League of Legends…which is a game I’ve played since the end of season 1 now.

I also talked a lot about the toxic environment people face in the game with other players and did so for about 2-3 years, which made me reply to a comment about this very topic and explained my background followed by a list of things you could do in order to get a less toxic experience. Maybe I should have worded it that way and double checked my reply since I can see how one sentence can be misunderstood, but overall it should make sense after reading the list. If it was still unclear people could ask questions though, I didn’t see why I would need to spell it out, I mean, they’re not babies.

Here is the post I was replying to:img1

And this was my reply (feel free to use the advice)

img2

Or so I thought *laughs to self* what followed after was snarky replies and a ban (for “breaking” rule 5), for some general purpose advice on how to deal with toxicity in league of legends in a context that would be relevant for everyone coming across the list in a subreddit so heavily anti-harassment. I added some comments to them, trying to be funny because why the fuck not.

ghazi responses1

1. huh?

2. nice “list” you got there

3. women aren’t toddlers? Then why did you 2 suggest that particularly women should not experience shitty behavior? I never disclosed my gender, but good news for all you women feeling like you’re a man trapped in a womans body, become a GamerGater and you will magically grow a penis while losing your breasts.

4. Are you a satire account roaming ghazi?

ghazi responses2

Wanna see my phd?

For a lot of people the episode is probably no surprise, but it’s a good way to show the hypocrisy of this subreddit, which is the only reason I decided to write this…as a way to give others a warning. If you’re looking for an anti-GamerGate subreddit I’d suggest /r/againstGamerGate, I won’t call Ghazi anti-gg (at least we can agree on that) I’d just call it crazy-town.

37 comments
  1. This how they react to men and it is always gamergates
    I stop trying to talk to them a long time ago,they dont want advice they want to bitch about what man do wrong
    I dont believe for a second that the man in the start post has a girlfriend and sure as hell if he has one than she isnt going to be a pro player

    Watch this vid to the end to cheer you up mate

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s0f1ptC788

    1. thank you for the nice thoughts 🙂 I’m fine though, just wanted a clear cut case of ghazi circus for people wanting to check it out for themselves so they know where they are going. Because to combat harassment they don’t want advice on it, they just want to cry.

      1. Imagine if that cult just kept growing and growing. It’s not just online either. Here in Boston it’s just about taken over completely. It sucks.

          1. Will you be going to Boston Game loop this year? It’s basically one giant cult indoctrination process.

          2. Not going there, but I think you should post about that on KIA or /gamergate/ anti-gamer cults fall under the scope of what GamerGate fights imo

  2. I love it. When you post what the OP wrote you are inviting similar stories and advice. Wtf do they want to hear?

    Here’s one thing that really pisses me off. For years and years gaming has been a boys club. More and more girls came every day and thats awesome. Girls want to be treated no different, they want to be equals.

    What girls need to understand is that guys often berate each other for sport. We talk trash to our friends and opponents we say horrible horrible things that we dont mean. It’s just the way we are.

    So enter a thin skinned female. She hears the trash talk she gets some directed at her and suddenly she’s angry or upset. She thinks is sexist yadda yadda.

    Well 99% of the time its just guys being guys. Its how we unwind its how we play with each other. It is what it is. Dont take it so damn personally or organize your own community. Dont jump into an established one and try to gut it.

    Now granted thr younger the guy the stupider the dialog. Older guys will adjust in the presence of a lady but when they are gone we do it to and I’d bet my left nutt the sjw crowd does it too. Everyone does it. Everyone talks shit to friends.

    1. Unless you include Victorian era men’s social clubs, since when was gaming a boys club? As in an -exclusive- club? Even back then I don’t think anyone shot girls for playing bridge or billiard.

      I’ve yet to see a single game (or even a gamer) echo the old “no dogs, blacks or irish” with “no women allowed” with zero snark involved.

      Don’t take their shitty rhetoric as a given.

      It’s not a thin skinned woman gamer but an agenda pushing outsider in 9/10 cases, gender =/= valid argument, age =/= class, reddit = circlejerk, feminists =/= pro equality, feminists = better life for females who tow the line and hell and brimstone for the rest, betting a nut = silly as you don’t have too many to spare 😛

      1. I already have a wonderful son so I can get by letting one go lol.

        Its a touch argument to make and ive found myself typing almost this exact thing many times and deleting it because I know I’ll inevitably get the response of “that’s no excuse” and then get into a circular argument that goes nowhere.

        The problem is, and this comes from my experience being male my entire life, is that it is just how we are. Its not taught, its just there. Yes we are on average the more aggressive gender and thats an expression of that. The issue is people who dont understand that also dont understand that while we are saying awful things to each other the overwhelming majority of us don’t mean a word of it. Its just part of the “fun”. Certainly some people go too far but that happens regardless of online or off.

        Would it be nice if a game had a no trash talk or vulgar language playlist for multiplayer? Sure.

        1. If we’re talking about averages then yes, males are accepted as being more aggressive. Thing is that (also going by averages) females are more competitive. Also going by those same averages females are more prone to using verbal/mental abuse. And if you still believe that girls can’t lose their shit or trash talk, youtube some crazy soccer moms. (or -try- talking to some snowflake AGGRO’s)

          Bottom line is that both genders are prone to abusive behavior under the right circumstances. I think it comes to the individuals to do better then what the “averages” are.

          There’s also a point that typically people online are behind a handle, so you really don’t know (or should care) about the gender of the one cussing at you.

          So basically if you cry “princess!” at the lack of special treatment this is my counter:

          1. We can only ever talk about averages when we speak of groups. Clearly there are people from both genders who act opposite of the average norm but its called an average for an very good reason .

          2. I differ, we can also easily take a best (or a worst) element of any group as an example. Say would you hire an average student to tutor your kid or a honor student?

            Now the way I see it that reason you refer is popular opinion which influenced the preconceived notion about a particular group.

            Problem with anything popular is that it’s simply louder then any other alternatives, not that it’s necessarily right. Say if you would go based solely on average press coverage for GG – we’re all undead mysogenerd terrorist hacker scum sockpuppets for -only visiting- this site.

            Seriously, if you settle for average you’re just going to slip below it.

          3. I don’t think for a second that the anti gg side is the popular opinion.
            The issue is most people don’t pay attended so the press says something, they assume they can trust it and we are all evil.

            If they were to really know what was going on it would be a different story.

    2. The last paragraph is telling and true.
      Boys will be crass to act tough.
      Men will censor themselves and moderate their language for women.
      This happens universally, and is the reason many men resent women moaning about harassment, because they refuse to see or acknowledge what men ENJOY doing with each other.
      Men don’t have “boys clubs” sure, because men always welcome women (aside from the upper class exclusive clubs, where women ALSO had their safe spaces)
      But men do enjoy time in the company of men without having to worry about how things are taken.
      Women that can successfully navigate to reach this acceptance find it welcoming. It just requires a measure of confidence and self possession. I know men that cant handle it, and they tend to be whiny pricks or “alphas” that pretend it’s beneath them.
      Those men just don’t have the convenient scapegoat of sexism to blame 😛

      Personally, I’m glad my friends are comfortable enough with me to mock and insult me.
      Wouldn’t have it any other way.

    3. Except I’ve been seeing more women taking part in the trash talking. Hell some of the girls are mods for the servers I play in and talk shit jus as well as the guys and take it like they do as well.

      We can tell the difference between jesting and outright malicious (which the offender gets kicked then banned) and the girls know this as well and don’t want to be treated as princesses (though they are treated as such constantly anyhow)

  3. It always gives me warm fuzzies to know that GG actually has people deep inside Ghazi, recording conversations and threads and whatnot. They’re quick to dismiss this as a made-up fantasy, but it’s incredibly easy to get into Ghazi, especially if you got in just as it was starting up.

    Some of us will do it for free, Ghazi.

  4. What’s hilarious is that while League’s community is fairly toxic, the report system works quite well and to the best of my knowledge the tribunal system which hands out bans like they’re going out of style is actually taken with a fair degree of seriousness by those judging behavior because on a 2/3 vote, the majority voters get some manner or reward and the minority vote gets squat. So, basically, you actually want to be making the right call based on careful analysis of the evidence. Oh, and it’s a fucking COMPETITIVE game, so there will always be psychological warfare (trash talk) and shit players talking shit who don’t recognize they are garbage. DEAL WITH IT.

    1. Just because that player died charging the tower some fifty odd times while calling the rest of you feeder cunts in a mixture of Polish and Swahili doesn’t mean we get to deal with them ourselves.

      Oh no.

      We need a Sarkesian-sempai wannabe to come and teach us how horribly albeist/racist/sexist and my favorite -toxic- we are, because our privilege didn’t allow us to be educated on how our reaction may’ve traumatized a transgendered honeybadger in Manilla.

      Obviously a patreon account will be involved so get them shekels ready.

      1. Good sir! I feel the need to inform you that ANY honey badger around would not only be be completely untraumatized by petty word play, but would in fact simply eat the face off of her assailant as if it was an offering of cheap meat.

        That is all.

    2. At the end of the day it’s just words on the internet, society in general needs to learn to deal with being offended instead of wasting time whining about it. Besides, there’s a mute button in league, no?

      1. there is yes, and always encouraged people to use that damn button, the majority doesn’t use it and the ones that does use it when they don’t like someone e.g. they are bad players

    3. As I stated in the post to ghazi, I’ve been involved in this particular part of league, a lot of the things you state are really old information and out of date.

      They don’t use a tribunal system anymore but a piece of software that “identifies” toxic players

      The tribunal system, whether you like it or not, ain’t really a good system, because who watches the watchmen? It’s extremly easy to be toxic and avoid a ban by the tribunal. There is no way to determine if voters are trying to be accurate or not.

      They stopped giving rewards in the tribunal while it was still going, when it was giving rewards most people just pressed punish to get dem rewards, but after they removed them it didn’t really become better since people did not have a reason to vote anymore other than “vent” their frustration from bad or toxic players by pressing punish on other players (this is my theory) this is the majority of voters though as determined by the tribunal representatives on the forum who often replied aggressively towards people asking why they were banned on the forums.

      The tribunal was a bad system though, never really liked it because there was no way to know it’s accuracy, riot tried to do analysis and statistics but it was faulty. Before I will tell you about that, let me tell you how the tribunal actually worked.

      if you in a short period of time got some percentage of reports (no one knows how much that is except riot) you would end up in the tribunal with the chat logs showed for 5 games where you were reported (chosen by random at first and not always five, later changed to the last five games you got reported in, this was changed a few months after they removed tribunal rewards) along with the end game result, how long the game took place, what map, when it was played and the outcome for the team which the “accused” was on in that match. the verdict of the “accused” would be determined by a vote weight determined by your previous voting accuracy, pardons had a higher weight, no one knows the weight of pardons/punishes either.

      Riots measured a players toxicity by the amount they were reported which was the first mistake in their analysis, a player not reported does not conclude that he was not toxic, and a player reported does not determine he was toxic, players are more likely to report when they lose than if they win, they are far less likely to report players with a good score or players carrying them even though they were toxic, because it brought them a win.

      Now on to tribunal practices, a survey concluded that the average judge only needed one game of toxic behavior, they only needed a few lines of negative outlet from the “accused” and only focused on what the accused was writing (which makes the concept of context abscent.)

      The judges require some ridiculous angelic standard of “accused” players when they end up in the tribunal before they pardon, yet when answering player inquiries about tribunal bans they don’t live up to the same standard and often reply in a rude way or ridicule the people asking, and let me be clear, half the time these people were posting quite angrily (Why the fuck was I fucking banned fucking tribunal piece of shit, fucking shit) however if you believe you unfairly lost your account I understand the frustration, it should be the example of a judge to lead by example though this is not the case.

      So possible 5 games that can make you end up in tribunal

      1. you’re accused of killstealing and two premades harass you for 20 minutes until you finally get enough and tell them to fuck off and choke of a bucket of dicks.
      2. You have a bad game and can’t seem to get back on track.
      3. You have another bad game right after because you are kinda pissed off from doing bad in last game and curse a bit (not at your teammates.)
      4. somebody in the team is being an ass to someone not having a good game (what you just experienced) you think this ain’t fair and tell the asshole to “stop acting like a dick”
      5. you dominate your opponent, the rest of the enemy team wants you to report him for intentional feeding even though you just played so much better, you say you see no reason for that.

      You end up in the tribunal, and given that the average tribunal judge look at only what you say abscence of context, (your name is highlighted in purple) they see you tell thw two people in game 1 to fuck off and eat a bucket of dicks.

      You are now punished by the tribunal. The example is exaggerated albeit a realistic one.

      The rest of your post is totally true, it’s a competitive game and there will be trash talk.

      1. well, it certainly seems as though you are not only extremely well informed, but that you care quite a bit. Good on you. 🙂 You know, I don’t play competitive games precisely because of the kind of toxic behavior a lot of people engage in. My overall experience watching e-sports has taught me that unless you’re 5-man queuing on an actual team, it’s a headache and a half.

        1. cared* I was about to stop and planned on writing a guide for riot to pin on how to handle certain situations in the forums before I stopped when I was banned for “racism” from their forums (despite asking them three times to point me to where they percieve me saying something racist) if you want to verify I can dm you a list of posts I made.

          and I got false flag muted by their automute system because I got too many reports for saying no to reporting people I don’t find toxic (this was after they took down the tribunal) but other than that yes, I followed the development because I found it interesting and tried to contribute to a better community on the forums :).

          Now not so much anymore, my personal opinion of riot is that they have gotten greedy which is sad as they really used to care for their playerbase :/. Check out this introductional video to one of their legendary skins https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnVLWKsO6CQ

          Still play the game though (got all champions) but not buying RP anymore.

          1. Sadly it all comes down to money and how much abuse people can get away with. Everything eventually devolves into a culture of corruption, which is why you see so much hate towards Internal Affairs folks – their job is to treat everyone like a criminal, because frankly most of them fucking ARE criminals, and the really sad thing about it all is that they haven’t even got a clue that they are being criminals. All we can do is keep up the fight and fuck these people any which way we can.

          2. I don’t know about a specific culture, but there are definately people who are unable of being self critical

    4. To call it toxic is putting it mildly. My buddy’s son caught himself a week long ban after a rant over an open channel that the person who DARED admit they had only started playing a week before was quote “A no good fucking faggot who needs to slit their own fucking wrists and kill themselves.” He honestly didn’t understand (and still doesn’t) what he did wrong.

      1. It’s a huge problem with a lot of kids and online games (CoD and MW being prime examples). You see, in real life, if you talked that kind of shit, you would get the absolutely FUCK beaten out of you and you would learn not to do it. But with games like those – which are not AGGRESSION stimulators, contrary to jackasses like Sarkeesian and McIntosh, but STRESS stimulators, people are going to verbally lash out. And because that’s the culture they exist in, they don’t see a problem with it. The issue isn’t the games or anon culture – it’s the parents who hear their kids saying that shit and don’t IMMEDIATELY take that shit away from them. The most impulsive, trash talking douche bags in online games are prepubescent kids. If you take them out of the equation, the adults are way too busy focusing on winning to have a fit. Oh, and they are way more likely to hit the “mute” button on assholes.

  5. “Insta-rage”. Seems the Internet is powered by it these days. Rather than post a question asking for clarification, especially given the suggestions actually being made, conclusions are jumped to. So goes the cycle of life, aaummbeh amummbeh, ayumbeh ahh.

  6. That’s just how teenage girls react to things that threaten them, especially undisciplined girls raised in western families. And it goes well into their 20s and 30s too, I’ve met 70 year old grandmas in America that sound like their beliefs never aged past 14. It’s like a disease

    I’m assume you’re a young guy, because your mistake is trying to reason with them when they’re only interested in rationalizing their emotions. And btw, “toxicity” in gaming is not a big deal, grow thicker skin or you’ll end up like the girls you’re talking to.

    1. My attempt was not trying to reason with ghazi, more like seeing it for myself, like someone telling you a piece of music is utter shit, so you listen to it yourself to make up your own conclusion.

  7. Oh fuckin puleease. If I get to be called a “fucking fat ass piece of shit” every day of my life then women, niggers, foreigners and faggots get to be called out as well. #BeAStar

    1. hehehe beat me to it. I was reading that statement and thinking “How the hell do they have banter if the word ‘trash’ is off limits?” My friends and I would probably call each other faggots, shitheads, etc.

  8. “You channers can try to re-define the word ‘banter’ all you want, but it’s not going to work. ‘Banter’ is friendly and inviting for all parties. Most people on the planet would balk at any definition that includes calling someone trash. What y’all do is called bullying.”

    LMFAO. Disproved using google in 2.5 seconds:

    banter: “the playful and friendly exchange of teasing remarks.”
    teasing: “make fun of or attempt to provoke (a person or animal) in a playful way.”

    Example: Person 1 – “You SUCK!” Person 2 “No, YOU suck, you piece of trash!”

    Context, motherfuckers, context. (<- To SJWs)

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